Funerary Freight
05 Jun 2016 03:32 - 11 Jun 2016 22:54 #77111
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Funerary Freight was created by Juggernaut1981
Funerary Freight
Combat/Action Modifier


Only usable when this vampire sends another vampire to torpor.
Burn the vampire going to torpor and gain their current blood. This is diablerie, but there is no Blood Hunt Referendum. Only usable by a vampire that can commit diablerie. Burn the vampire going to torpor and gain all of their current blood.

Steal all the blood off the vampire going to torpor and instead place them in your torpor region.

As 
except you place this card on the vampire in torpor and a vampire you control may burn this vampire to gain +2 bleed or +4 stealth.
Art: An individual wearing a skull mask but int a full tuxedo is escorting a casket to an aircraft cargo bay.
Edit: Redoing the condition @obf more elegantly.
Combat/Action Modifier


Only usable when this vampire sends another vampire to torpor.







Art: An individual wearing a skull mask but int a full tuxedo is escorting a casket to an aircraft cargo bay.
Edit: Redoing the condition @obf more elegantly.





Last edit: 11 Jun 2016 22:54 by Juggernaut1981.
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05 Jun 2016 19:19 #77114
by jamesatzephyr
I would be enormously concerned about this level. Nosferatu / !Nosferatu deck hits you with IG, thump, Disarm, and can now diablerize you for free, without needing to spend blood on Decapitate or risk a blood hunt. This makes me massively uncomfortable. The City !Gangrel might like it for Obf/Pro aggro-poke, but that it combos with an existing very solid combat strategy probably outweighs that.
It also combos with the largely not very good Ritual of the Bitter Rose - which currently basically requires the play of Amaranth (except for ludicrous corner cases) to actually be worthwhile, but now you can pop anyone into torpor with relatively minimal damage, burn them with this, then slurp up blood onto all your vampires.
What do you want it to mean for it to be diablerie? (Existing card text generally emphasises situations where burning isn't diablerie, e.g. on Dismemberment of Osiris.) Does all of 6.5.5 apply? You've mentioned the moving blood already, so it appears you probably don't want it to - but 6.5.5 just triggers whenever diablerie happens, which this card appears to say is happening. So do I get equipment? Do I get a skill card (if he was older)? If not, it would be preferable to reword it.
Permanent stealing of a vampire without requiring an additional action seems more like the OBF/THAN level. If you swapped them, you would obviously want to rebalance the bleed/stealth.
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Funerary Freight
Burn the vampire going to torpor and gain their current blood. This is diablerie, but there is no Blood Hunt Referendum.
I would be enormously concerned about this level. Nosferatu / !Nosferatu deck hits you with IG, thump, Disarm, and can now diablerize you for free, without needing to spend blood on Decapitate or risk a blood hunt. This makes me massively uncomfortable. The City !Gangrel might like it for Obf/Pro aggro-poke, but that it combos with an existing very solid combat strategy probably outweighs that.
It also combos with the largely not very good Ritual of the Bitter Rose - which currently basically requires the play of Amaranth (except for ludicrous corner cases) to actually be worthwhile, but now you can pop anyone into torpor with relatively minimal damage, burn them with this, then slurp up blood onto all your vampires.
What do you want it to mean for it to be diablerie? (Existing card text generally emphasises situations where burning isn't diablerie, e.g. on Dismemberment of Osiris.) Does all of 6.5.5 apply? You've mentioned the moving blood already, so it appears you probably don't want it to - but 6.5.5 just triggers whenever diablerie happens, which this card appears to say is happening. So do I get equipment? Do I get a skill card (if he was older)? If not, it would be preferable to reword it.
Steal all the blood off the vampire going to torpor and instead place them in your torpor region.
As
except you place this card on the vampire in torpor and a vampire you control may burn this vampire to gain +2 bleed or +4 stealth.
Permanent stealing of a vampire without requiring an additional action seems more like the OBF/THAN level. If you swapped them, you would obviously want to rebalance the bleed/stealth.
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06 Jun 2016 05:30 #77118
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Funerary Freight
It's intended to prohibit the use of the card by vampires which may otherwise be prohibited from diablerie. More like a Sacrificial Lamb, but with different kickers. So you get the blood but it is diablerie, instead of you get the blood and gear but it isn't diablerie.
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=425
obf - Sacrificial Lamb at OBF (but not)
obf-thn steals vampire and all their blood, and then drops them in your torpor
The OBF-THN ability steals the vampire and all their blood, drops them in your torpor AND allows you to burn the card later for lots of stealth or some bleed.
www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?lib=425
obf - Sacrificial Lamb at OBF (but not)
obf-thn steals vampire and all their blood, and then drops them in your torpor
The OBF-THN ability steals the vampire and all their blood, drops them in your torpor AND allows you to burn the card later for lots of stealth or some bleed.





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09 Jun 2016 22:42 #77147
by Kimpan

National Coordinator of Sweden
Replied by Kimpan on topic Funerary Freight
I must say that the power level on this card is way above any other posted. And a really unfun card.
To steal a vampire as a combat/ action modifier is broken and too easy to combo. Burning a vampire should demand more than just sending one to torpor. Blood, votes or something.
And loosing a vampire sucks, I think its a bad idea to make cards that makes this game less fun to play.
You could make it a lot more fun and not game-destroying. ex.
Maneuver, only usable to go to close.
Only usable when opposing minion is not ready, only usable by a ready vampire, gain blood equal to half the capacity or cost of that minion rounded up.
As above, but for the full capacity or cost.
To steal a vampire as a combat/ action modifier is broken and too easy to combo. Burning a vampire should demand more than just sending one to torpor. Blood, votes or something.
And loosing a vampire sucks, I think its a bad idea to make cards that makes this game less fun to play.
You could make it a lot more fun and not game-destroying. ex.










National Coordinator of Sweden
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10 Jun 2016 23:12 #77166
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Funerary Freight
Too easy to combo?
There is hardly a forest of Samedi decks tearing up the world their their combat prowess (as opposed to variation Dead Hooker Decks). Combat is already well and truly weighted against torpor-causing combat in general.
"Burning a vampire should demand more than sending one to torpor"...
- Amaranth
- Decapitate
... it's been around for a WHILE.
Toning it down THAT far, basically makes it wallpaper.
A restricted maneuver at outferior, and variation Taste of Vitaes aren't likely to suddenly topple this card into a 'Everyone has to worry... Do the Samedi have card X in hand?'. Samedi don't really have any cards like that.
There is hardly a forest of Samedi decks tearing up the world their their combat prowess (as opposed to variation Dead Hooker Decks). Combat is already well and truly weighted against torpor-causing combat in general.
"Burning a vampire should demand more than sending one to torpor"...
- Amaranth
- Decapitate
... it's been around for a WHILE.
Toning it down THAT far, basically makes it wallpaper.
A restricted maneuver at outferior, and variation Taste of Vitaes aren't likely to suddenly topple this card into a 'Everyone has to worry... Do the Samedi have card X in hand?'. Samedi don't really have any cards like that.





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11 Jun 2016 07:23 - 11 Jun 2016 07:24 #77169
by GreyB
Is basically an amaranth + blood hunt cancel. A lot of decks would really become obnoxiously powerful, not just Samedi.
Basically boils down to a free combat grave robbing and blood transfer. Again, way too powerful @ inferiors.
Worse than inferior, if you're already increasing your bleed power by easily stealing their minions, there's no need to burn vamps for +bleed or even +stealth for that matter. Might use it if you steal a really useless vampire.
When designing "burn minion" or "steal minion" cards, you're touching a real sensitive game aspect balance wise. There should be a significant cost or risk. For example decapitate costs 2 blood and requires
, if it was free and required only
it would be too powerful. Amaranth is a real scary card, but you still have the blood hunt to deal with. Take away the cost and risk and you simply end up with an overpowered card.
-1 Strength
Replied by GreyB on topic Funerary Freight





When designing "burn minion" or "steal minion" cards, you're touching a real sensitive game aspect balance wise. There should be a significant cost or risk. For example decapitate costs 2 blood and requires







Last edit: 11 Jun 2016 07:24 by GreyB.
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