Card idea: Metanoia
01 Sep 2011 09:25 - 01 Sep 2011 09:29 #9462
by Ankha
Compared to KS and Legal Manip/Social Charm, this is not a bleed card. You can't use it to gain pool and make your prey loose pool.
Compared to Transfer of Power (a pretty weak card), it's not a referendum (a good thing), but doesn't steal pool.
Compared to Dark Mirror otM or Art Scam etc., it requires some disciplines and requires luck to gain more than 2 pool (need to draw more than 2 master out of 4 cards).
It's a polyvalent, random card, that requires a little bit of intuition.
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
Wrong. See Kindred Spirit, Dark Mirror of the Mind (cap > 8 isn't very specific or rare), Transfer of Power, Legal Manipulations. *Even* if it was the case,does it mean it can't be done? Comparison is good when used to see if the card's power is in line with other cards or the game.Plus, any type of direct pool gain from action cards is rare, and generally an effect reserved for rares, or very specific sect/cap.
Compared to KS and Legal Manip/Social Charm, this is not a bleed card. You can't use it to gain pool and make your prey loose pool.
Compared to Transfer of Power (a pretty weak card), it's not a referendum (a good thing), but doesn't steal pool.
Compared to Dark Mirror otM or Art Scam etc., it requires some disciplines and requires luck to gain more than 2 pool (need to draw more than 2 master out of 4 cards).
It's a polyvalent, random card, that requires a little bit of intuition.
Last edit: 01 Sep 2011 09:29 by Ankha.
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01 Sep 2011 09:56 #9463
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
Kindred Spirits = +1 Bleed with a gain 1 pool (at superior)
Legal Manipulations = +2 Bleed with a gain 1 pool costing 1 blood
Social Charm = +1 bleed with a gain 1 pool (at superior) for no cost
Dark Mirror = Gain 2 pool as a +1 stealth action with 8+ cap requirements
Transfer of Power = Gain 1 pool from potentially everyone (including cross tables) requiring vote-control or maybe enough table support
The cards it most closely resembles are:
Cull the Herd: Takes out allies and retainers, costs 1 blood,
actions any player, gain 1 blood for each ally/retainer discarded
Precision: Name a card, force someone to discard just that card.
Shattering: Chi, Anarch, 1 blood, look at a hand discard one card as a
action on any player
Sleight of Hand: Chi, discards equipment only, looks at the whole hand, costs 1 blood
Truth of Blood: Bleed plus discard 1 card if blocked. Aus-Qui which is a relatively rare combination. (3 vampires in G4-5, 2 distinct vampires in G2)
Vaticanation: Trujah
Most of these cards cost a minimum of 1 blood. Most give no secondary benefit like blood or pool gain and any cards that do give secondary benefits are very limited.
So yes, when you compare LIKE cards with like cards, your card is overpowered for its cost.
Legal Manipulations = +2 Bleed with a gain 1 pool costing 1 blood
Social Charm = +1 bleed with a gain 1 pool (at superior) for no cost
Dark Mirror = Gain 2 pool as a +1 stealth action with 8+ cap requirements
Transfer of Power = Gain 1 pool from potentially everyone (including cross tables) requiring vote-control or maybe enough table support
The cards it most closely resembles are:
Cull the Herd: Takes out allies and retainers, costs 1 blood,

Precision: Name a card, force someone to discard just that card.
Shattering: Chi, Anarch, 1 blood, look at a hand discard one card as a

Sleight of Hand: Chi, discards equipment only, looks at the whole hand, costs 1 blood
Truth of Blood: Bleed plus discard 1 card if blocked. Aus-Qui which is a relatively rare combination. (3 vampires in G4-5, 2 distinct vampires in G2)
Vaticanation: Trujah
Most of these cards cost a minimum of 1 blood. Most give no secondary benefit like blood or pool gain and any cards that do give secondary benefits are very limited.
So yes, when you compare LIKE cards with like cards, your card is overpowered for its cost.





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01 Sep 2011 10:07 #9465
by Ankha
Anyway, I've understood you find it too powerful. Go play KS.
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
Sure, if you compare it with unplayed crap cards, it's strong. Much stronger than Twisting the Knife too. Shattering is maybe the best card of those, and there's no random part in it. And you can discard a deflection or a master as you want.The cards it most closely resembles are:
Cull the Herd: Takes out allies and retainers, costs 1 blood,actions any player, gain 1 blood for each ally/retainer discarded
Precision: Name a card, force someone to discard just that card.
Shattering: Chi, Anarch, 1 blood, look at a hand discard one card as aaction on any player
Sleight of Hand: Chi, discards equipment only, looks at the whole hand, costs 1 blood
Most of these cards cost a minimum of 1 blood. Most give no secondary benefit like blood or pool gain and any cards that do give secondary benefits are very limited.
So yes, when you compare LIKE cards with like cards, your card is overpowered for its cost.
Hmm, the only two cards I've seen played. Guess what? They cost nothing. Truth gives bleed. Vacitination shows you the hand of everyone at 3 stealth.Truth of Blood: Bleed plus discard 1 card if blocked. Aus-Qui which is a relatively rare combination. (3 vampires in G4-5, 2 distinct vampires in G2)
Vaticanation: Trujah
Anyway, I've understood you find it too powerful. Go play KS.
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01 Sep 2011 14:22 #9475
by Kraus
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Replied by Kraus on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
I think someone should properly playtest this card - or at least try it out.
I think I could, probably... Someone else?
I still think this is one of the better cards Ankha's been conjuring up.

I still think this is one of the better cards Ankha's been conjuring up.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
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01 Sep 2011 14:51 #9478
by Ankha
You can print it from here:
www.veknfrance.com/site/IMG/pdf/metanoia.pdf
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
I'd be very glad to see what it gives.I think someone should properly playtest this card - or at least try it out.
I think I could, probably... Someone else?
I still think this is one of the better cards Ankha's been conjuring up.
You can print it from here:
www.veknfrance.com/site/IMG/pdf/metanoia.pdf
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kraus
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07 Nov 2011 09:28 #13523
by Kraus
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Replied by Kraus on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
Hello!
I've tried Metanoia out once already in a Serenna the White toolbox with midcap Malkavians from G5, and I'm hoping to get some time to do another run with the deck today. Last time I was trying to oust a Giovanni Location deck, with the guy who gains hand size with every location. I was confronted with a handsize of roughly 15 cards, so taking a pick with metanoia from there was hard as hell, and the card just didn't work too well. Also I was struggling with the lack of stealth in the action.
We all agreed that even in the best case scenario the card isn't really that powerful. What I've been thinking is adding a second card type to choose from for superior level. That would make the card really a bit more plausible, but still not too wondeful compared to Kindred Spirits. Often I found myself looking at 2 reactions, a combat card and an action modifier when I was trying to find masters.
I hope to have more luck with my prey today and make some more observations. Anyways, I really liked the card, and guys around the table were positively interested in it. The power level just wasn't on a desirable level as it is.
Other issues I might have: the deck really isn't spesifically designed for Metanoia. The deck is originally a Haunting/Blood denial wall, and at the moment I'm replacing the blood denial aspect with Metanoia. It might work better in a bleed/toolbox kind of deck with a bit more stealth.
I've tried Metanoia out once already in a Serenna the White toolbox with midcap Malkavians from G5, and I'm hoping to get some time to do another run with the deck today. Last time I was trying to oust a Giovanni Location deck, with the guy who gains hand size with every location. I was confronted with a handsize of roughly 15 cards, so taking a pick with metanoia from there was hard as hell, and the card just didn't work too well. Also I was struggling with the lack of stealth in the action.
We all agreed that even in the best case scenario the card isn't really that powerful. What I've been thinking is adding a second card type to choose from for superior level. That would make the card really a bit more plausible, but still not too wondeful compared to Kindred Spirits. Often I found myself looking at 2 reactions, a combat card and an action modifier when I was trying to find masters.
I hope to have more luck with my prey today and make some more observations. Anyways, I really liked the card, and guys around the table were positively interested in it. The power level just wasn't on a desirable level as it is.
Other issues I might have: the deck really isn't spesifically designed for Metanoia. The deck is originally a Haunting/Blood denial wall, and at the moment I'm replacing the blood denial aspect with Metanoia. It might work better in a bleed/toolbox kind of deck with a bit more stealth.
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha
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