Stepping down from the Design Team
22 Apr 2012 05:53 - 22 Apr 2012 06:14 #28317
by Joscha
Baron of Frankfurt
Replied by Joscha on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
I'm getting the impression that the designers aren't aware of the responsibility they have towards the game and the community. Those conflicts and most important the reactions to them seem childish at best. Good heavens, it has to be possible to work together for the big goal to keep the game going after it has been abandoned by its former developers.
For me it would be a great honour to work for said goal. So pull yourself together and keep going.
And for future sets we should appoint developers, who really want to work for the game and not for their egos.
(Edit)Sidenote: I don't need those guys to develop and publish unofficial cards. Everybody can do that and have done so already before. The feat is to make a well tested, balanced, official, game beneficial edition.
For me it would be a great honour to work for said goal. So pull yourself together and keep going.
And for future sets we should appoint developers, who really want to work for the game and not for their egos.

(Edit)Sidenote: I don't need those guys to develop and publish unofficial cards. Everybody can do that and have done so already before. The feat is to make a well tested, balanced, official, game beneficial edition.
Baron of Frankfurt
Last edit: 22 Apr 2012 06:14 by Joscha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, acbishop, Stefan, PetriWessman, Ashur, Hakuron, Surreal
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22 Apr 2012 06:55 #28322
by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
@Joscha : you say VEKN does need their expertise to do well-tested and balanced card. I am under the impression the three that have quit does not think that way and at the very least want to prove a point.
Future will show who was right on the matter.
Let's take for a moment the possibility that the douchebag is not the three messenger, but the director who variably abused them in some undisclosed way I don't know what you do in life, but in IT it happend quite frequently to see an incompetent superior mangle their work, stealing credit, and all.
In a paid job, I would completely said to them to give all their work to their entreprise anyway. But here ? They work for free in their spare time. They have somehow the right not to bear that.
The other possibility is that they are a trio of arrogant people that can't bear criticism and quit because they don't like to be supervised even in a normal way.
But that's just two possibility. We are completely unable to see who the blame is - I just won't believe blindly neither Johannes nor the quitters. Both have badly handled the case, at least publicly.
A a side note, I believe it would be better at this level to just remove everyone involved in the design team, including the director and all the designer, and either abandon the project or start it again with neutral people. The high school way : since nobody will say who is the culprit, everyone punished. And since ego is involved, the punishment will be good enough.
Future will show who was right on the matter.
It's becoming clear to me, given Jeff, Carl, and Eric's public actions, that it was less Ben's actions and absence being a problem than it was one or more of those three letting their emotional state overwhelm them for months, convincing themselves that Ben was not the project director, and eventually being unwilling to work with Ben to form some sort of solution.
Let's take for a moment the possibility that the douchebag is not the three messenger, but the director who variably abused them in some undisclosed way I don't know what you do in life, but in IT it happend quite frequently to see an incompetent superior mangle their work, stealing credit, and all.
In a paid job, I would completely said to them to give all their work to their entreprise anyway. But here ? They work for free in their spare time. They have somehow the right not to bear that.
The other possibility is that they are a trio of arrogant people that can't bear criticism and quit because they don't like to be supervised even in a normal way.
But that's just two possibility. We are completely unable to see who the blame is - I just won't believe blindly neither Johannes nor the quitters. Both have badly handled the case, at least publicly.
A a side note, I believe it would be better at this level to just remove everyone involved in the design team, including the director and all the designer, and either abandon the project or start it again with neutral people. The high school way : since nobody will say who is the culprit, everyone punished. And since ego is involved, the punishment will be good enough.
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22 Apr 2012 08:18 #28324
by Pascal Bertrand
For non-tournament games, all cards (in all formats) are of course allowed.
There already is a tremendous number of propositions (and discussions) here: vekn.net/index.php/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas , and I suppose Carl/Eric/Jeff's cards will be added to the list.
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
Only V:EKN issued cards will be tournament legal.I agree with Ashur. Having the VTES community splitted between thoses who accept your card and thoses who refuses them could be pretty bad.
For non-tournament games, all cards (in all formats) are of course allowed.
There already is a tremendous number of propositions (and discussions) here: vekn.net/index.php/forum/30-expansion-sets-a-card-ideas , and I suppose Carl/Eric/Jeff's cards will be added to the list.
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22 Apr 2012 08:19 #28325
by johannes
So you want the V:EKN to produce a set of 30 underpowered cards that hardly anybody is going to use because they are underpowered (just like the 1000+ underpowered cards we already have)? May I ask why? I mean everything possible is done to no create overpowered cards, but deliberately aiming at all underpowered seems to make the whole idea of the set useless to me.
Replied by johannes on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
I infer that you have seen some of the cards. I hope by "the Quality" being produced you mean underpowered. If VEKN prints all power cards in this first Non CCG Expansion, I will be gravely Disappointed.
So you want the V:EKN to produce a set of 30 underpowered cards that hardly anybody is going to use because they are underpowered (just like the 1000+ underpowered cards we already have)? May I ask why? I mean everything possible is done to no create overpowered cards, but deliberately aiming at all underpowered seems to make the whole idea of the set useless to me.
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22 Apr 2012 08:21 - 22 Apr 2012 08:23 #28326
by Brum
Replied by Brum on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
@Ohlmann: one of the issues I see with your plan is the hours and hours that lots of people already put into the project.
Again, VEKN would be betraying the trust and effort of lots of its volunteers.
It is not a situation of easy (or drastic) solutions, otherwise the remedy might be worse than the sickness.
Again, VEKN would be betraying the trust and effort of lots of its volunteers.
It is not a situation of easy (or drastic) solutions, otherwise the remedy might be worse than the sickness.
Last edit: 22 Apr 2012 08:23 by Brum.
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22 Apr 2012 08:34 #28327
by Poci
Replied by Poci on topic Re: Stepping down from the Design Team
The whole team should've remained intact for this Sabbat project, and then go on separate groups to work on further projects on their own (like the Laibon one mentioned). The quitters should have remained because of the community and the VEKN should at least value the x-hunred working hours they put in this project from the start, before scrapping x months of work, playtesting, and alienating these people away from it.
It's interesting to see, that the quitters taking their work (which is understandable, but...) and design their variation. One of the sides have to let the thing go, because as it was said before, it'll be damn ugly, at best....
It's interesting to see, that the quitters taking their work (which is understandable, but...) and design their variation. One of the sides have to let the thing go, because as it was said before, it'll be damn ugly, at best....

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