Stronghold Games

My opinion is that the US patent, and its expriation, is a red herring. Entirely irrelevant.

Wizards still owns the game design from a copyright perspective, and that's what really matters here.

If you publish game cards that are compatible with the current game design, and you do it without securing a license from WotC, you will receive multiple lawsuits from them - some from the patent, some from the copyrighted game design. Never mind that by the time you get to press, the patent is expired, never mind that it's questionable to what extent a game design is protected by copyright. You would get those lawsuits, and no one in their right mind wants to lawyer-up to fight Hasbro even if they think they have an iron-clad case (because even then, they'll be able to hire more and better lawyers than you).

Some do not believe that Hasbro has an iron-clad case. Some believe that ALL the WotC patents are too broad, stifle competition, and are defeatable in court. The issue is money to sue Hasbro, of course.

My point is that even if the patent didn't exist, there would still be insurmountable obstacles in the way of printing VtES (without WotC involvement) because WotC / Hasbro still owns the original game design.

Sure, the patent is probably bogus, but whether or not you try to fight it or wait it out is really only an issue for developing any new CCG (do you license from WotC under the patent, or do you risk the lawsuits). In the case of VtES, you have that plus the more solid game design IP ownership issue.

You know this, how? Where are the non-expiring patents that WotC will use to pursue a lawsuit?

They certainly haven't sued every CCG ever in history, because they "own" the "collectible card game" design.

First, although I'm not a lawyer, I have studied patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets, and I apply that knowledge in my field of work. Second, I'm not a lawyer, and anyone would be a fool to take advice from someone who's not a lawyer if they were thinking of putting money on the line in something with legal issues involved

To your question : there are no non-expiring patents, of course.

What do exist are copyrighted game designs, and trademarked terms and products. Let's look at another recent example which had no patents involved at all.

Fantasy Flight games couldn't go and produce a reprint of, or expansion for, the Fortress America board game without licensing from WotC. Biggest reason is that WotC owns the trademarks to that game. It would be an open-and-shut case to get smacked down for infringing a trademark like that.

They also would be in hot water if they attempted a reprint or expansion and called it "Canadian Castle", but it was essentially the same game. That's because WotC owns copyright on the game design, game components, etc. Here there's a weaker footing for the copyright owner to attack the infringer. Although they can clearly copyright the specific wording of the rulebook, the map layout, etc, the notion of copyrighting a game mechanic is more up in the air. However, this is where truth or justice just don't matter, it's all about whether you're willing to lawyer-up, spend the money and go toe-to-toe in court.

This is why when Fantasy Flight republishes these old games, rather than just doing it, they make licensing deals. They republished Fortress America, they licensed the trademarks AND the game design from WotC.

When FFG republished the old Dune board game (from 30+ years ago), they bought or licensed the game design from the original designers (who still owned it themselves, good for them). They couldn't get any cooperation from the Herbert estate, so they couldn't call it Dune; they called it Rex instead and made up new backstory. They could have just ripped off the game design, and potentially been sued by the original game designers, but they did the right thing and bought or licensed the game design instead.

No patents involved in either of those examples, just copyrights, which have a much longer lifespan.

What do exist are copyrighted game designs

Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.

www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

I'm not an expert but the above seems to state you can at least clone the engine of a game (but you'd have to change the art and font and instruction if the instructions in total are registered as a work or art or something or other.

I could be wrong though, i just thought it was interesting.