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file How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean

04 Mar 2016 12:06 - 04 Mar 2016 12:06 #75737 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean

I also think Sonar and Eyes of the Beast are good strong cards that I (and my meta) use all the time in protean heavy Gangrel decks, one example:-with Jacob Fermor, Gunnar, Calvin Cleaver’ Fergus Alexander, Lillian, Robert Price. And my Blood brother Kiev Circle deck. I also use intercept locations in these decks aswell. However often locations are stolen, contested, or arson’d ect. I use Sonar & Eyes of the Beast in my animalism/protean Gangrel Gather deck to guard (with animalism) against Gather and my pool being negatively effected.

I've never seen these cards played, and their restrictions (not replacing, only against (D) action) make them look extra weak.
Now, if you say that they are good cards you play regularily without complain, they should probably be added to the list, though I'd probably bump them up a bit.

Regarding Auspex, I think My Enemy's Enemy and Telepathic Counter deserve better.
Given the restriction on not stacking the same reaction cards, MEE is important to have and also provides some additional intercept if needed.

I know MEE is an interesting card, but there's no room for two bounces in the list. Plus, the "bleed your predator" aspect doesn't fit in a base set.

As for TC, there are not too many bleed reduction cards and it is not bad to have an alternative defense mechanism other than block or bounce that does not tap or cost blood.

It's not because it does something unique that it should be included. TC is a bad card, that's all.

Regarding Protean, I think the discipline needs maneuvers to land that agro poke, so at least one of form of the ghost or quick meld should be kept if you want to prevent Protean combat to be hosed by a Magnum .44.

Probably, but those cards are never played for good reason: they suck. Hopefully, you have plenty of other cards to help you against a .44, such as Drawing out the Beast or Terror Frenzy in Animalism, or Swallowed by the Night in Obfuscate, or maneuvers in Celerity or in Fortitude. Or even a Fake Out.
Or another simple alternative: why don't you play your Claws of the Dead for maneuver?
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04 Mar 2016 20:55 #75766 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean

  • Pulse of the Canaille: a costly card but that is totally playable and interesting


    • Pulse of the Canaille isn't unplayable, but it is very expensive for what it is. I'd be tempted to not put it in a reprint set if you're hoping to use it to attract new players.

  • Telepathic Vote Counting: useless card


    • I'd put in a small plea for TVC. It's not Dreams of the Sphinx or Govern the Unaligned level, but it does turn up in decks a bit. In a low vote environment, it's not that bad, though it requires some thought.

    One of the problems with some 'base sets' we've had is that - to my mind - they've sometimes been too exclusive in where certain tech goes. It's nice that Obfuscate is good at stealth, but it's also nice that there are options from Protean, Obtenebration or wherever else. It's nice that Presence is a good voting discipline, but it's probably helpful if a few other disciplines have some access to voting tech. Otherwise, you can find that you have decks that feel quite silo-ed. So even if it's not TVC, it would be nice to think about where politics slots into some non-Presence disciplines.

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    05 Mar 2016 02:22 #75777 by AaronC
    Replied by AaronC on topic How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean
    I see that your concept is to keep previously printed cards as is, but then to re-launch VTES as essentially a limited "curated" set.

    Have you thought about the overall set you're proposing? For instance, there are more Auspex cards that make the cut than there are Protean cards. Does that mean Protean would have fewer cards?

    I also think that it's important that the basic discipline powers from the RGP be represented in any set by name. That would require a re-design, not just using old cards. For instance Psychic Projection and Form of the Ghost are the level 5 powers of Auspex and Protean, respectively. Cards by that name should be in the card game.

    When I look at the design of Jyhad, I think it was a weakness to limit intercept to Auspex with a little to Animalism, and to limit stealth to Obfuscate with a little to Protean. I think Celerity should also have had minor stealth and Protean minor intercept. Maybe Sonar is weak, I don't know. Gleam of the Red Eyes should have given intercept instead of combat abilities since it allows you to see in the dark. But that's a redesign, not a choice among previously designed cards. Protean should give combat offense and defense, stealth, and intercept, IMO.

    Any redesign would have to consider the clans getting each discipline's cards and what the basic strategy or strategies of that clan are going to be. Intercept combat should be the strength of Gangrel in a reboot, and that would have to include Protean intercept.

    BTW, "polyvalent" is translated as "versatile" in English. The spellchecker doesn't alert you because "polyvalent" is a term in chemistry that means "multiple valences."
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    05 Mar 2016 08:59 #75779 by Lönkka
    Replied by Lönkka on topic How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean

    I also think that it's important that the basic discipline powers from the RGP be represented in any set by name. That would require a re-design, not just using old cards. For instance Psychic Projection and Form of the Ghost are the level 5 powers of Auspex and Protean, respectively. Cards by that name should be in the card game.

    No need for this as it'll become a humonguous quaqmire we will never wade out from!

    The original Jyhad set had The Ritual of the Bitter Rose as mere action modifier (=available for all) while it is a Thaumaturgy ritual. Does this really affect playability? Does this give access to cool card names?
    Finnish :POT: Politics!

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    05 Mar 2016 13:08 #75794 by Ankha
    Replied by Ankha on topic How I would relaunch V:TES (card reprint) - Part 2 - Auspex and Protean

    I see that your concept is to keep previously printed cards as is, but then to re-launch VTES as essentially a limited "curated" set.

    Have you thought about the overall set you're proposing? For instance, there are more Auspex cards that make the cut than there are Protean cards. Does that mean Protean would have fewer cards?


    Yes, that's no big deal. There's no point in adding cards that don't fit for the sake of having the same number of cards in each discipline.
    [/quote]

    BTW, "polyvalent" is translated as "versatile" in English. The spellchecker doesn't alert you because "polyvalent" is a term in chemistry that means "multiple valences."

    I stand corrected.
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