Crypt card redesign
14 Sep 2016 23:03 - 14 Sep 2016 23:04 #78277
by Ke.
I stated it "also" solves a design issue; it was never the sole reason. Equally; that was in response to suggestions the sect should be moved to the black bar.
The black bar provides a clear location for clan name and group. The clan name is helpful for new players and doesn't interfere with the current card text (separated by design).
Asides from the fact that it is a change; please advise what the negative impact is?
Replied by Ke. on topic Crypt card redesign
You have made it very clear twice in this thread that you sought to resolve the design problem of what to do when the vampire has no text. You have created a hole to fill. Remove the hole and there becomes no need to fill it.
I stated it "also" solves a design issue; it was never the sole reason. Equally; that was in response to suggestions the sect should be moved to the black bar.
The black bar provides a clear location for clan name and group. The clan name is helpful for new players and doesn't interfere with the current card text (separated by design).
Asides from the fact that it is a change; please advise what the negative impact is?
Last edit: 14 Sep 2016 23:04 by Ke..
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14 Sep 2016 23:15 #78279
by BenPeal
You're occupying card space with redundant information in the attempt to address an issue that is unrelated to crypt cards and that has already been addressed. That's card space that can be used for increasing the font size for improved readibility - something which can help all players and not just new ones.
Replied by BenPeal on topic Crypt card redesign
Asides from the fact that it is a change; please advise what the negative impact is?
You're occupying card space with redundant information in the attempt to address an issue that is unrelated to crypt cards and that has already been addressed. That's card space that can be used for increasing the font size for improved readibility - something which can help all players and not just new ones.
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14 Sep 2016 23:23 - 15 Sep 2016 02:02 #78280
by Ke.
Your feeling is incorrect; poor assumption.
I am in no way am I frustrated by the amount of work involved — if anything the sheer scale of the task at hand and what has already been accomplished shows this.
The main thing that frustrates me is fear of and resistance to change.
Replied by Ke. on topic Crypt card redesign
I get the feeling you're frustrated by the prospect of having to do a lot more work to come up with something that works properly.
Your feeling is incorrect; poor assumption.
I am in no way am I frustrated by the amount of work involved — if anything the sheer scale of the task at hand and what has already been accomplished shows this.
The main thing that frustrates me is fear of and resistance to change.
Last edit: 15 Sep 2016 02:02 by Ke..
The following user(s) said Thank You: brettscho
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16 Sep 2016 11:01 - 16 Sep 2016 11:03 #78311
by BenPeal
Replied by BenPeal on topic Crypt card redesign
Further issues with traits, attributes, keywords, and terms:
Keyword: Not defined or referenced in the rulebook. It's a general term in gaming.
Trait: Only referenced in the rulebook in the rules for the special term Vulnerability. The only trait is Cold Iron.
Attribute: Clan and discipline symbols go in the attribute bar of a crypt card. Attribute is also referenced in the rules for Anarch vampires - the only attribute is Anarch.
Term: Terms are the proposed results of a successful referendum. Special terms are (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) that have special rules associated with them in the rulebook.
All other (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal, and Gehenna are not defined in the rulebook as being a trait, attribute, keyword, or term. We've clearly gotten along just fine without such a definition, but from a hard-coding perspective, it would be good to define them.
I propose the following terminology:
Keyword: Remains not defined in the rules. Just a general term in gaming.
Atttibute: Only refers to the attribute bar, where clan, discipline, and Advanced icons are displayed.
Terms: Only refers to the proposed result of a successful referendum.
Trait: All of the keywords, such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal and Gehenna. Also includes "special traits", which are those listed in the "special terms" section of the rulebook (simply renaming "special term" to "special trait").
Note that by these definitions, things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" are not traits. They remain abilities provided to a vampire in its card text.
Keyword: Not defined or referenced in the rulebook. It's a general term in gaming.
Trait: Only referenced in the rulebook in the rules for the special term Vulnerability. The only trait is Cold Iron.
Attribute: Clan and discipline symbols go in the attribute bar of a crypt card. Attribute is also referenced in the rules for Anarch vampires - the only attribute is Anarch.
Term: Terms are the proposed results of a successful referendum. Special terms are (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) that have special rules associated with them in the rulebook.
All other (traits/attributes/keywords/terms) such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal, and Gehenna are not defined in the rulebook as being a trait, attribute, keyword, or term. We've clearly gotten along just fine without such a definition, but from a hard-coding perspective, it would be good to define them.
I propose the following terminology:
Keyword: Remains not defined in the rules. Just a general term in gaming.
Atttibute: Only refers to the attribute bar, where clan, discipline, and Advanced icons are displayed.
Terms: Only refers to the proposed result of a successful referendum.
Trait: All of the keywords, such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal and Gehenna. Also includes "special traits", which are those listed in the "special terms" section of the rulebook (simply renaming "special term" to "special trait").
Note that by these definitions, things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" are not traits. They remain abilities provided to a vampire in its card text.
Last edit: 16 Sep 2016 11:03 by BenPeal.
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16 Sep 2016 11:07 #78312
by BenPeal
Perhaps things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" could be defined as "simple abilities". Thoughts?
Replied by BenPeal on topic Crypt card redesign
I propose the following terminology:
Keyword: Remains not defined in the rules. Just a general term in gaming.
Atttibute: Only refers to the attribute bar, where clan, discipline, and Advanced icons are displayed.
Terms: Only refers to the proposed result of a successful referendum.
Trait: All of the keywords, such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal and Gehenna. Also includes "special traits", which are those listed in the "special terms" section of the rulebook (simply renaming "special term" to "special trait").
Note that by these definitions, things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" are not traits. They remain abilities provided to a vampire in its card text.
Perhaps things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" could be defined as "simple abilities". Thoughts?
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16 Sep 2016 11:38 - 16 Sep 2016 11:50 #78313
by Ankha
The terminology works for me.
Compare
I'm not sure that every gradation of abilities should be nicknamed not handled differently, even though it's tempting for the "+1 stealth".
There's another thing to consider: if "+1 stealth." is displayed differently (eg. in bold), what about allies that have "+1 stealth"?
So far, sect, clans and titles are unique characteristics of vampires. That could be one of the reason why they are displayed in bold.
Traits apply to vampires, allies, retainer, equipment ("Gun"), events ("Gehenna"), political actions ("Blood hunt.") If there is a display rule for traits, it should take this into consideration.
Replied by Ankha on topic Crypt card redesign
I propose the following terminology:
Keyword: Remains not defined in the rules. Just a general term in gaming.
Atttibute: Only refers to the attribute bar, where clan, discipline, and Advanced icons are displayed.
Terms: Only refers to the proposed result of a successful referendum.
Trait: All of the keywords, such as Black Hand, Seraph, mortal, ghoul, animal and Gehenna. Also includes "special traits", which are those listed in the "special terms" section of the rulebook (simply renaming "special term" to "special trait").
Note that by these definitions, things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" are not traits. They remain abilities provided to a vampire in its card text.
The terminology works for me.
Perhaps things like "+1 strength" and "+1 intercept" could be defined as "simple abilities". Thoughts?
Compare
- +1 stealth.
- X gets +1 stealth on bleed actions.
- While he is ready, changelings cost you 1 less pool.
I'm not sure that every gradation of abilities should be nicknamed not handled differently, even though it's tempting for the "+1 stealth".
There's another thing to consider: if "+1 stealth." is displayed differently (eg. in bold), what about allies that have "+1 stealth"?
So far, sect, clans and titles are unique characteristics of vampires. That could be one of the reason why they are displayed in bold.
Traits apply to vampires, allies, retainer, equipment ("Gun"), events ("Gehenna"), political actions ("Blood hunt.") If there is a display rule for traits, it should take this into consideration.
Last edit: 16 Sep 2016 11:50 by Ankha.
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