file Will it help, if the order of casting votes will be fixed in a rulebook?

25 Nov 2016 11:26 - 25 Nov 2016 11:27 #79231 by elotar
As I see there is some work going on to fix the rulebook. Guys don't want to introduce fundamental changes ;) and even lolz ones (make first strike work against combat ends/dodges, turn life of allyes into blood e t.s.) but there is, I think, one aspect which can be fixed without breaking any "sacred oathes" - referendums.

Main goal is to reduce time, which takes for referendum to resolve when there are several partisipants. Obviously it can be "worked around" by putting negotiations before actually casting the votes, but structure will give players "in the end of queue" option to force guys in the beginning to make desicion.

So the proposed order for succesful political action is:
1. setting the terms
2. playing "before votes are cast" cards
3. casting votes:
Metusela has at once choose for each his sorce of the votes is it for/against or abstains in following order:
- acting
- his prey
- predator
- grandpray
- grandpredator
4. playing "during the referendum" cards
5. counting votes/resolving the referendum
6. cards that depend on the outcome of a referendum may be played

I may try to do this at our local games to see how it'll go, but it's, obviously, not a representative field.

And what society thinks about this?

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:
Last edit: 25 Nov 2016 11:27 by elotar.

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25 Nov 2016 12:00 - 25 Nov 2016 12:01 #79237 by Ankha

As I see there is some work going on to fix the rulebook. Guys don't want to introduce fundamental changes ;) and even lolz ones (make first strike work against combat ends/dodges, turn life of allyes into blood e t.s.) but there is, I think, one aspect which can be fixed without breaking any "sacred oathes" - referendums.

Main goal is to reduce time, which takes for referendum to resolve when there are several partisipants. Obviously it can be "worked around" by putting negotiations before actually casting the votes, but structure will give players "in the end of queue" option to force guys in the beginning to make desicion.

So the proposed order for succesful political action is:
1. setting the terms
2. playing "before votes are cast" cards
3. casting votes:
Metusela has at once choose for each his sorce of the votes is it for/against or abstains in following order:
- acting
- his prey
- predator
- grandpray
- grandpredator
4. playing "during the referendum" cards
5. counting votes/resolving the referendum
6. cards that depend on the outcome of a referendum may be played

I may try to do this at our local games to see how it'll go, but it's, obviously, not a representative field.

And what society thinks about this?

Casting votes doesn't take time. Negociations are the lengthy part, and your proposal changes nothing

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 25 Nov 2016 12:01 by Ankha.
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25 Nov 2016 16:00 #79243 by hardyrange
Well... I fail to see a description of the problem that is supposed to be fixed.
In my opinion, voting currently works fine...

"It was a perfect plan - until it had contact with reality"
---
Hardy Range
Playgroup Tradition Compliance Manager
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25 Nov 2016 16:16 #79244 by jamesatzephyr

Well... I fail to see a description of the problem that is supposed to be fixed.
In my opinion, voting currently works fine...


But it's stated right in the message...
Main goal is to reduce time, which takes for referendum to resolve when there are several partisipants.

elotar believes that referendums (sometimes) take a long time to handle, and apparently thinks that formalizing the order in which votes are cast would help that.

Some referendums cam take an extremely long to handle, if you find yourself with several vote decks / decks with lots of standing votes. But formalizing the order in which votes are cast doesn't affect that in any way.
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25 Nov 2016 19:34 #79246 by Brum
Only issue is deadlocks:
A: "I'm not voting until B votes"
B: "I'm not voting until A votes"

C: "JUDGE!"

And the judge artificially creates the rule elotar seems to wish for.
Is that it?
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25 Nov 2016 19:43 #79247 by jamesatzephyr

Only issue is deadlocks:
A: "I'm not voting until B votes"
B: "I'm not voting until A votes"

C: "JUDGE!"

And the judge artificially creates the rule elotar seems to wish for.
Is that it?


If you're having trouble getting people to cast their votes, it might be better invoke the time limit from the rulebook:
The polling stage is completed only when all Methuselahs are finished casting votes and ballots (if you need a time limit, the players can agree to wait 15 seconds after the last vote or ballot cast to close the polling stage).

In any event, the current tally of votes says that the vote is passing or failing. If either A or B want to cause it to pass when it's failling, or fail when it's passing, they'll need to cast their votes somehow.

But, in my experience, the bigger issue usually comes when people are setting terms and other Methuselahs are saying "If you don't set the terms in a way I like, I'll vote it down." Or, if there are good intercept decks on the table (especially with Eagle's Sight/Falcon's Eye) threatening to block it in the first place, though that obviously wouldn't be affected by a change to the referendum.
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