file Ghoul retainer

26 Feb 2017 11:32 #80862 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Ghoul retainer
I'd argue that Ghoul Retainer already has a stupid effect. And I concede that the rewrite introduces an equally stupid effect. Please look past whether the effect is stupid or not; there's a deeper issue here than replacing one stupid effect for another. The current text on Ghoul Retainer makes it very difficult to understand all of its interactions. There was a card that was recently banned because of issues with implementation (Seeds of Corruption). I'm arguing that Ghoul Retainer has those same issues with implementation. Having a card that is difficult to implement is a bad idea. That is my reason for the suggested change. I am not suggesting this change to introduce a hot new effect, it's to make the card understandable.

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26 Feb 2017 14:48 #80865 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Ghoul retainer
Ghoul retainer has nothing to do with Seeds of Corruption and his current effect is not stupid.

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26 Feb 2017 17:09 #80869 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Ghoul retainer

Ghoul Retainer
Ghoul with 2 life. 1 strength.
During the initial strike resolution each round, the Ghoul Retainer inflicts 1 damage or may use a weapon not used by the employing minion (or another retainer) that round (either before or after). This is not a strike, although it does count as "using" the weapon.

Wouldn't it just be easier if the bolded text above said "or may inflict an amount of damage that a weapon on the employing minion would inflict" and call it a day?

It doesn't work for Rowan Ring for instance.

The current text has the same issues with implementation that Seeds of Corruption had, which was recently banned because of those issues.

Not quite. Seeds of Corruption refered to "special abilities" that are not defined in the rules and can't be easily defined. I don't see the problem here with Ghoul Retainer, there's no ambiguity.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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26 Feb 2017 21:21 #80871 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Ghoul retainer
Rowan Ring doesn't inflict damage, so 0 damage.

As to your second point: "using"a weapon is not defined in the rulebook either. If you can't point to a section in the rulebook that clearly explains what "using" a weapon is, then ambiguity exists. Just as it did for Seeds of Corruption.

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27 Feb 2017 07:09 #80876 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Ghoul retainer

Rowan Ring doesn't inflict damage, so 0 damage.

As to your second point: "using"a weapon is not defined in the rulebook either. If you can't point to a section in the rulebook that clearly explains what "using" a weapon is, then ambiguity exists. Just as it did for Seeds of Corruption.

Can you point out a real example in which the card is ambiguous?

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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02 Mar 2017 14:01 #80952 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Ghoul retainer
The counters on Weighted Walking Stick would be burned if used by Ghoul Retainer. Therefore, "using" a weapon is considered a strike in certain situations. This is ambiguous.

Weighted Walking Stick
Only usable before range is determined on the first round.
Put this card on this minion and put 5 counters on this card. While in play, this card represents a melee weapon (equipment) that does strength +1 damage each strike. For each point of damage inflicted by this strike (even if prevented), remove a counter from this card. Burn this card when it has no counters. A minion can have only one Weighted Walking Stick.

Ghoul Retainer
Ghoul with 2 life. 1 strength.
During the initial strike resolution each round, the Ghoul Retainer inflicts 1 damage or may use a weapon not used by the employing minion (or another retainer) that round (either before or after). This is not a strike, although it does count as "using" the weapon.

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