file Top 20 "Almost good" cards

27 Jul 2018 00:10 #89391 by ReverendRevolver
Inspired by the "worste cards" thread, I assembled top 20 cards I feel are ALMOST playable, and could be good with a minor change.

Do you agree? Do you think there's no hope even with change for these? Is my list a large part of your favorite deck and you hate me? Let me know?

Vamps

I avoided group 1, as well as anything with an Advanced version. I also ignored all things that needed more than a small fix.

Akram :cap8:
:CEL: :QUI: :pot: :pre:
Camarilla primogen: Once each turn after completing combat, if Akram and the opposing minion are still ready, Akram may burn 1 blood to begin another combat with the opposing minion.
Fix: drop Primogen and 1 cap.

Black Annis :cap9:
:POT: :OBF: :ani: :pro:
Sabbat: Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.

Fix: go against character sheet and up Ani.

Epikasta Rigatos :cap8:
:AUS: :DOM: :PRE: :cel:
Camarilla Prince of New York: You may move an action card Epikasta plays from your ash heap to your library at the end of the action (shuffle afterward).
Faruq

Fix: up on level of Celerity and if needed one cap.

Giangaleazzo :cap8:
:OBT: :POT: :PRE: :dom:
Camarilla Prince of Milan: Any Lasombra can enter combat with Giangaleazzo as a (D) action. If there are any Gehenna cards in play during your discard phase, he can burn 1 blood to unlock.

Fix: add fortitude si he goes in ventrue decks.

Hrotholf :cap8:
:CEL: :FOR: :PRE: :dom: :pot: :pro:
Camarilla: If you control the Edge, Hrothulf can burn it to enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action.

Fix: remove the edge coat of his action.

Katarina :cap9:
:ANI: :FOR: :pot: :pro:
Camarilla Prince of Glasgow: Katarina gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Ravnos.
Fix: up to :PRO: so shes worth 9. Princes with SUP SUP inf inf and 1-2 extras only cost 7. (I've used her anyway, but still)

Luanda magere :cap8:
:CEL: :PRE: :PRO: :for:
Laibon: Luanda gets +1 strength for each Orun he has
Fix: reduce to :cap7: because the ability isn't worth a whole :cap1: extra.

Suhailah :cap9:
:FOR: :OBF: :pot: :ser:
Camarilla Prince of Cairo: Suhailah gets +1 stealth on each of her actions if your prey has a ready prince or justicar. +1 bleed.
Fix: up the inferiors to :POT: :SER: . I mean, Suhailah is one of my favorite princes, because it's rare I'll contest her, but the "standard" for princes with SUP SUP inf inf and 0to2 specials is 7 cap. If you disagree, look at every 7cap prince. BenRose,GregerAnderssen, iraRivers, KarenSuadela, TimCrowley,QuentinKing. Now, ones who don't are Murat,GilbertDuane,Graham, who have overestimated special, 3SUP, SUP SUP 3Xinf, respectively. So yea, 7cap princes get SUP SUP inf inf.

Zayyat :cap10:
:ANI: :FOR: :PRO: :aus: :qui: :tha:
Independent: Zayyat has 2 votes (titled). Zayyat can move up to 3 blood from himself to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region as a +1 stealth action. Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth for the current action.
Fix: remove title. Or make him Anarch/Baron. Seriously, Anarch Zayyat is worthwhile Zayyat.

Library
Auto-da-fe

Requires a cardinal, regent or Inquisitor. Choose a vampire with capacity less than 8. Successful referendum means that vampire's controller burns X pool or burns that vampire, where X is the difference between 8 and that vampire's capacity.

Fix: require a title Sabbat vamp or inquisitor, then make it burn the vamp or X, Where X is capacity. May need to lower target value by 1.

Backstab cost 2 blood

Only usable by a blocking vampire. Only usable on the first round of combat. [cel] This vampire gets first strike on his or her initial strike this round. [CEL] As above, with an additional strike.
Fix: remove cost. Its conditional, possibly add only useable bu vampire above 6cap.

Black Spiral Buddycost 4pool, req !gangrel

Werewolf with 3 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Damage from Black Spiral Buddy's hand strikes is aggravated. Black Spiral Buddy gets 1 additional strike each combat. If Black Spiral Buddy has 2 or less life during your unlock phase, he gains 1 life.
Fix: reduce cost by 1.

Blood of the Sabbat
Cost1 blood
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready archbishop, priscus, cardinal or regent. Put this card on a Sabbat vampire other than the acting vampire. The vampire with this card gains 1 blood after each successful (D) action he or she performs. A vampire may have only one Blood of the Sabbat.
Fix:allow bishops to play and one of: remove cost, add unlock the acting vampire, or unlock target.

Brass Knuckles

Melee weapon. Strength+1 damage each strike, only usable once each combat.
Fix: make it :handstrike at Stregth+1 only usable once each round.

Dissolution cost 1blood

[pro] Maneuver or press. [PRO] Maneuver, with an optional press.
Fix: remove cost.

Kpist m/45 cost 3pool

Weapon. Gun. 1R damage each strike, with an optional maneuver each combat. When bearer strikes with this gun, he or she gets an optional additional strike this round, only usable to strike with this gun.
Fix: reduce cost by one.

Mind of a Child
Cost3blood
[dem] (D) Put this card on any vampire. The vampire with this card cannot play cards that require Disciplines. Any vampire can burn this card as a +1 stealth action. [DEM] As above, and the capacity of the vampire with this card is reduced by 1 (but not below 1). Remove excess blood.
Fix: reduce cost by 1.

Prison of the Mind
Cost 3 blood
[dem] +1 stealth action. (D) Burn an ally or retainer. [DEM] (D) Put this card on a vampire. This vampire has -1 stealth and -2 intercept. Any vampire(s) can burn this card with three +1 stealth actions. A vampire can have only one Prison of the Mind.
Fix:reduce cost by 1.

Shadowed Eyes
Cost 1 blood
+1 stealth action. [aus][obt] (D) Put this card on an ally or younger vampire. This minion gets -2 intercept and cannot take (D) actions or use ranged strikes. Any minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action. [AUS][OBT] As above, and the action to burn this card costs an additional blood or conviction.
Fix: this card is great, then you use it. It only targets younger vamps, and the action to burn it is at stealth. Remove both and it's fair. Why not just one? This had the potential to make people build different decks, there isn't many vamps who can play it, but enough. It's no sense dep, but could be cool, if not such a bitch to play and keep in play.

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27 Jul 2018 15:40 #89401 by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Top 20 "Almost good" cards
Epikasta is incredibly good. I would definitely not want to pay an additional pool to give her another unused level of Celerity.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Brum

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27 Jul 2018 18:43 - 27 Jul 2018 18:48 #89402 by ReverendRevolver

Epikasta is incredibly good. I would definitely not want to pay an additional pool to give her another unused level of Celerity.

I'm just not a fan of Torrie princes getting slighted :CEL:
I mean, she goes with Raphael and I suppose Christopher Houghton, but her special could be cooler with superior scalpel tongue, imo.

Just realized i.missed Faruq but left the name;
His rush needs better and he needs all in clans at superior.
Last edit: 27 Jul 2018 18:48 by ReverendRevolver.

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27 Jul 2018 18:58 #89403 by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Top 20 "Almost good" cards
Epikasta + Montecalme + Raphael + TGB + Mind Rape + Alastorcopter vote. Enjoy.

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27 Jul 2018 19:14 #89404 by ReverendRevolver
Totally forgot the justicar lines up with them. Nevermind.
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27 Jul 2018 21:11 #89406 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Top 20 "Almost good" cards

Akram :cap8:
:CEL: :QUI: :pot: :pre:
Camarilla primogen: Once each turn after completing combat, if Akram and the opposing minion are still ready, Akram may burn 1 blood to begin another combat with the opposing minion.
Fix: drop Primogen and 1 cap.


Fix, add 1 level of :pot: or just reduce capacity by 1.

Black Annis :cap9:
:POT: :OBF: :ani: :pro:
Sabbat: Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.

Fix: go against character sheet and up Ani.


Fix, add level of :pro:

Epikasta Rigatos :cap8:
:AUS: :DOM: :PRE: :cel:
Camarilla Prince of New York: You may move an action card Epikasta plays from your ash heap to your library at the end of the action (shuffle afterward).
Faruq

Fix: up on level of Celerity and if needed one cap.


Honestly, she isn't far from being playable. I'd leave her as she is.

Giangaleazzo :cap8:
:OBT: :POT: :PRE: :dom:
Camarilla Prince of Milan: Any Lasombra can enter combat with Giangaleazzo as a (D) action. If there are any Gehenna cards in play during your discard phase, he can burn 1 blood to unlock.

Fix: add fortitude si he goes in ventrue decks.


He don't have it. I'd add him his missing :obf:

Hrotholf :cap8:
:CEL: :FOR: :PRE: :dom: :pot: :pro:
Camarilla: If you control the Edge, Hrothulf can burn it to enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah as a (D) action.

Fix: remove the edge coat of his action.


Well, that's good place for +1 bleed instead.

Katarina :cap9:
:ANI: :FOR: :pot: :pro:
Camarilla Prince of Glasgow: Katarina gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Ravnos.
Fix: up to :PRO: so shes worth 9. Princes with SUP SUP inf inf and 1-2 extras only cost 7. (I've used her anyway, but still)


She is bad. What about superior :POT: instead ? And inferior :obf:

Luanda magere :cap8:
:CEL: :PRE: :PRO: :for:
Laibon: Luanda gets +1 strength for each Orun he has
Fix: reduce to :cap7: because the ability isn't worth a whole :cap1: extra.


Why not :FOR: instead ?

Suhailah :cap9:
:FOR: :OBF: :pot: :ser:
Camarilla Prince of Cairo: Suhailah gets +1 stealth on each of her actions if your prey has a ready prince or justicar. +1 bleed.
Fix: up the inferiors to :POT: :SER: . I mean, Suhailah is one of my favorite princes, because it's rare I'll contest her, but the "standard" for princes with SUP SUP inf inf and 0to2 specials is 7 cap. If you disagree, look at every 7cap prince. BenRose,GregerAnderssen, iraRivers, KarenSuadela, TimCrowley,QuentinKing. Now, ones who don't are Murat,GilbertDuane,Graham, who have overestimated special, 3SUP, SUP SUP 3Xinf, respectively. So yea, 7cap princes get SUP SUP inf inf.


Already playable. I'd add her :ani:

Zayyat :cap10:
:ANI: :FOR: :PRO: :aus: :qui: :tha:
Independent: Zayyat has 2 votes (titled). Zayyat can move up to 3 blood from himself to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region as a +1 stealth action. Once each turn, he can burn 2 blood to get +2 stealth for the current action.
Fix: remove title. Or make him Anarch/Baron. Seriously, Anarch Zayyat is worthwhile Zayyat.


Could be anarch. On the other hand, why not giving him moar disciplines instead ?

Auto-da-fe

Requires a cardinal, regent or Inquisitor. Choose a vampire with capacity less than 8. Successful referendum means that vampire's controller burns X pool or burns that vampire, where X is the difference between 8 and that vampire's capacity.

Fix: require a title Sabbat vamp or inquisitor, then make it burn the vamp or X, Where X is capacity. May need to lower target value by 1.


Requirement is good, but up the number to 9.

Backstab cost 2 blood

Only usable by a blocking vampire. Only usable on the first round of combat. [cel] This vampire gets first strike on his or her initial strike this round. [CEL] As above, with an additional strike.
Fix: remove cost. Its conditional, possibly add only useable bu vampire above 6cap.


It's hopeless card. Wouldn't be played much even with 0 blood, and whole design is bad. Leave it as it is.

Black Spiral Buddycost 4pool, req !gangrel

Werewolf with 3 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Damage from Black Spiral Buddy's hand strikes is aggravated. Black Spiral Buddy gets 1 additional strike each combat. If Black Spiral Buddy has 2 or less life during your unlock phase, he gains 1 life.
Fix: reduce cost by 1.


Good fix.

Blood of the Sabbat
Cost1 blood
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready archbishop, priscus, cardinal or regent. Put this card on a Sabbat vampire other than the acting vampire. The vampire with this card gains 1 blood after each successful (D) action he or she performs. A vampire may have only one Blood of the Sabbat.
Fix:allow bishops to play and one of: remove cost, add unlock the acting vampire, or unlock target.


Costing blood is fine, just unlock the target vampire.

Brass Knuckles

Melee weapon. Strength+1 damage each strike, only usable once each combat.
Fix: make it :handstrike at Stregth+1 only usable once each round.


Count as hand strike instead?

Dissolution cost 1blood

[pro] Maneuver or press. [PRO] Maneuver, with an optional press.
Fix: remove cost.


Are we making pro even better ?

Kpist m/45 cost 3pool

Weapon. Gun. 1R damage each strike, with an optional maneuver each combat. When bearer strikes with this gun, he or she gets an optional additional strike this round, only usable to strike with this gun.
Fix: reduce cost by one.


What about NERFING .44 instead ?

Mind of a Child
Cost3blood
[dem] (D) Put this card on any vampire. The vampire with this card cannot play cards that require Disciplines. Any vampire can burn this card as a +1 stealth action. [DEM] As above, and the capacity of the vampire with this card is reduced by 1 (but not below 1). Remove excess blood.
Fix: reduce cost by 1.


Not very fun card to play against. No real way to make the concept to work either.

Prison of the Mind
Cost 3 blood
[dem] +1 stealth action. (D) Burn an ally or retainer. [DEM] (D) Put this card on a vampire. This vampire has -1 stealth and -2 intercept. Any vampire(s) can burn this card with three +1 stealth actions. A vampire can have only one Prison of the Mind.
Fix:reduce cost by 1.


Decent.

Shadowed Eyes
Cost 1 blood
+1 stealth action. [aus][obt] (D) Put this card on an ally or younger vampire. This minion gets -2 intercept and cannot take (D) actions or use ranged strikes. Any minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action. [AUS][OBT] As above, and the action to burn this card costs an additional blood or conviction.
Fix: this card is great, then you use it. It only targets younger vamps, and the action to burn it is at stealth. Remove both and it's fair. Why not just one? This had the potential to make people build different decks, there isn't many vamps who can play it, but enough. It's no sense dep, but could be cool, if not such a bitch to play and keep in play.


Just the action to burn should cost 1 blood by default.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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