How to make Potence better?

What's the point in investing in combat card when any chump with or can just fly away with instant speed s:ce ? Problem with potence and other combat cards is that cards invested in combat can be thwarted by single instant speed s:ce making all blood spending wasted.

For example if you played maneuver + thrown server lid, you wasted two cards while enemy played just one. If you striked with for example pushing the limits, and enemy use s:ce, he is up a blood, up an untap and you are likely down a rush and two combat cards and a vampire's action. It's easy to see how unbalanced it is, all that because combat is easy to avoid.

Another thing that hinders active combat is hard time to gear up compared to intercept combat, intercept combat can usually play their tool-up stuff and still block while active combat can't do the same or it cost a lot of resources.

What card would give a boost to potence?

What about:


+2 Stealth Action. Untap if successful.
Attach (1) with 2 counters, burn a counter or this card during your untap. This vampire get +1 Strength.
As above, but at +4 Stealth instead and this vampire may burn a combat card and 1 blood to Strike: Ranged Strength damage.

Why it need an untap ? Otherwise only fatties and intercept combat would play it. It last 3 turns, so it's not that bad to deal with, and is on stealth.

Of course proper balance checks about how much time it lasts on the table, it's cost and how it works (perhaps +1 str only during first round of combat), but that's the general idea.

Thrown junk is suboptimal period. It reminds me of auras in MTG, too much investment due to liability.

Ability to have standing +strength shouldn't be transient, but lasting, as WWS makes anything transient less good by comparison.

Why +strength should be permanent? Transient effects are cheaper and have less problems with stacking, permanent need steeper cost and if they don't come with untap and zillion stealth thus are more suited to high-cap all stars.

Solid transient +str is definitely an option over WWS (like the one i proposed or even one that burn counters after you enter combat, lasting for example 3-4 combats), especially one that give you ranged strike. Something like Heroic Might but less committing. Of course this template can be used for other physical disciplines too.

Lech wrote:

What's the point in investing in combat card when any chump with or can just fly away with instant speed s:ce ? Problem with potence and other combat cards is that cards invested in combat can be thwarted by single instant speed s:ce making all blood spending wasted.

For example if you played maneuver + thrown server lid, you wasted two cards while enemy played just one. If you striked with for example pushing the limits, and enemy use s:ce, he is up a blood, up an untap and you are likely down a rush and two combat cards and a vampire's action. It's easy to see how unbalanced it is, all that because combat is easy to avoid.

Do not manuever to throw a sewer lid. The lids are there for when they manuever away.That's not the way one should play rush combat.

• Do not use rush cards without a means to deal with s:ce, dodges and long manuevers. Use Haven Uncovereds, Contracts and inherent rush vampires otherwise.
• Short chain combat is the best when being pro-active. Preferably 0-1 and occasionally 2 cards unless the combat continues or has done its job already and one is capitalizing on it.
• One needs to use small to mid cap vamps and/or pot/cel/aus or other clan cards or discipline cards or equipment/events/masters/retainers that can help negate s:ce, dodges or long manuevers.
•Use means to utilize the beating up on another vampire: Fame/ Tension/ Dragonbound/ et al.
• Realize that after getting a victory point (or whilst attaining that vp) one may very likely have to go upstream to secure the table win. It's a slightly different path toward victory but still very effective.

Some of these points do not necessarily apply to intercept combat or bruise&bleed.

Your card suggestion is not as good as Preternatural Strength/Heroic Might or WWS or Target: Vitals, so not really worth it, though the idea may be on the right track.

Lech wrote:

Why +strength should be permanent? Transient effects are cheaper and have less problems with stacking, permanent need steeper cost and if they don't come with untap and zillion stealth thus are more suited to high-cap all stars.

Solid transient +str is definitely an option over WWS (like the one i proposed or even one that burn counters after you enter combat, lasting for example 3-4 combats), especially one that give you ranged strike. Something like Heroic Might but less committing. Of course this template can be used for other physical disciplines too.

Let's pretend that both Heroic Might and Preturnatural Strength were printed as commons in SoC and EK (small set commons are by nature super volumous) so they are as readily available as touch of pain and invoke poison glands.
They cost blood. One costs lots of blood. But that's ok, because it doubles as a 44 and a perma canine horde. But it's less ok because it burns if you go to torpor. The other costs a blood and limits you from playing signposts. No cool extras, but it stays on you through a dirt nap.

Compare it to 44 magnum, that does out desired amount of damage per strike and gets you to desired range WHILE not going away in torpor and not removing blood from this vampire you plainly intend to be in combat. For 2 pool, the closest things that handsy-close range combat gets are Depravity and Art of Pain, both unique, one disallows retainers (important for nos, gargoyles, and things needing extra intercept ot bleed) ones a non-potence clan.
Potence having a superior Biothaumaturgic Experiment permanent for a pool and 1 action with 2 playable effects, like deep song, govern, eyes of argus, enchant kindred, etc. Will give the needed fix. It could be a rush at basic and horseshoes at superior or rush at basic and bleed +1 at superior, but playable. Transient effects are fine for spotty stuff, stickman decks aren't solely winning with hitting for 2, potence combat hitting for one each round all game is just awful.
Aping the 2 things that celerity guns and animalism have that potence doesn't is a logical place to see what would help it.

Very vise words from Mr Scythe!

Although, if need be, you should be prepared to go upstream immediately to prevent from being ousted. You need to be able to check what kind of deck is your Predator and if you need to start thinning the ranks immediately or have more time to prepare / devote to downstream.

Some Archon Investigations and Protected Resources might be useful.