Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
19 May 2020 13:07 #99899
by Ankha
Or kill the other Methuselah that is contesting with you! Of course, you'll need other vampires, and maybe some crosstable firepower, while surviving.
I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.
Replied by Ankha on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
With your star vampire: Play intercept. Play wakes or unlock cards. Or even play a DI.If your star vampire got a sensory deprivation, you will not use it.
Combat? With your star vampire: Play combat. A vote? With your star vampire: Play Delaying Tactics or votes.There is a lot of ways that you cant just lose your vampire turn 1...
A contest? Play ... well... Clio's Kiss? You just need another vampire with Temporis superior, they go in all decks.And remember, after the "contesting" vampire leaves the table you can use yours.
Or kill the other Methuselah that is contesting with you! Of course, you'll need other vampires, and maybe some crosstable firepower, while surviving.
I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.
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19 May 2020 15:24 - 19 May 2020 15:26 #99901
by Palamedes
You had the choice to put 12 different vampires in the crypt. You could have put at least 2 different useful ones, but you didn't, and besides, you don't have any backup plan, so your game is over. And where is the flaw? Rules or your deck?
Instead of allowing them to play that way, let them deal with the situation. Players who play so risky should be punished.
And you know, if you really think something needs to be done, it is not necessary to change the rules for this situation. Just design a new card.
Example:
Master
Out-of-turn.
If another copy of a vampire you control with the capacity 9 or more comes into play, there is no contest. Instead, remove the new copy from the game and return the blood to the controller's pool.
or
Master
Put this card on a vampire with the capacity 9 or more in your uncontrolled region. When this vampire goes to your ready region, if there is any other copy with the same name under the control of another player, add "II" to the name of your vampire.
Replied by Palamedes on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
Playing without any intecept, DI, combat, vote or Delaying Tactics, etc. is similar to basing an entire game on one vampire.I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.
You had the choice to put 12 different vampires in the crypt. You could have put at least 2 different useful ones, but you didn't, and besides, you don't have any backup plan, so your game is over. And where is the flaw? Rules or your deck?
Instead of allowing them to play that way, let them deal with the situation. Players who play so risky should be punished.
And you know, if you really think something needs to be done, it is not necessary to change the rules for this situation. Just design a new card.
Example:
Master
Out-of-turn.
If another copy of a vampire you control with the capacity 9 or more comes into play, there is no contest. Instead, remove the new copy from the game and return the blood to the controller's pool.
or
Master
Put this card on a vampire with the capacity 9 or more in your uncontrolled region. When this vampire goes to your ready region, if there is any other copy with the same name under the control of another player, add "II" to the name of your vampire.
Last edit: 19 May 2020 15:26 by Palamedes. Reason: card design
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19 May 2020 19:49 #99902
by Sambomb
I didn't say its at the same level.
I just said that you can lose your vampire at turn 1 and its a valid strategy to use at least another vampire at your decks for those kind of corner cases.
And thats the point of my proposal, that you can open another option instead of be stucked at a contest.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Replied by Sambomb on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
I don't understand how you put contest on the same level as the rest.
I didn't say its at the same level.
I just said that you can lose your vampire at turn 1 and its a valid strategy to use at least another vampire at your decks for those kind of corner cases.
And thats the point of my proposal, that you can open another option instead of be stucked at a contest.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
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19 May 2020 20:17 #99903
by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
I like this suggestion, but it occurs to me that we need to be able to have the player with a vampire on the board be able to do something in response (immediately or during his unlock). Otherwise, it's only the second Methuselah that gets a choice.
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19 May 2020 23:32 #99904
by Sambomb
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Replied by Sambomb on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
Yes, the reason is to avoid contest based on the "new" influence rules where you dont need to turn your vampire up unless you can and WANT.I like this suggestion, but it occurs to me that we need to be able to have the player with a vampire on the board be able to do something in response (immediately or during his unlock). Otherwise, it's only the second Methuselah that gets a choice.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
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20 May 2020 06:37 - 20 May 2020 10:07 #99906
by Tadori
All of thing you talk about create an interaction, so you have a chance to defend yourself by actually using cards. There is no such possibility with contest.
OFC you can play without a start vamp but why you have to be punished with a random factor (sitting) for playing the game. This kind of games will always deep down be a negative experience.
Replied by Tadori on topic Suggestion - Another option to handle constest
If your star vampire got a sensory deprivation, you will not use it.
At the start of the influence phase, before any transfers be spent.
If a player have at least 1 counter in a unique crypt card that is already in play
They can pay 1 pool, remove this card from the game ( show to everyone ) and move all counters to another card with the same age or younger.
This can solve the main random contest issue ( 2 inactive players for several rounds ) and still holds back star vampires as they still are unreliable if someone else bring it first you will suffer to use it too and the table talk will be very differente since you could have other choice.
I really like this idea it for sure improves things, but this is not a main issue with contesting, Main issue is that you don't have a vampire you build your deck around.
There is a lot of ways that you cant just lose your vampire turn 1...
And remember, after the "contesting" vampire leaves the table you can use yours.
If your deck cant play without a specific vampire, the problem is your deck, not the rules and you can still just contest and see what happens.
All of thing you talk about create an interaction, so you have a chance to defend yourself by actually using cards. There is no such possibility with contest.
OFC you can play without a start vamp but why you have to be punished with a random factor (sitting) for playing the game. This kind of games will always deep down be a negative experience.
Last edit: 20 May 2020 10:07 by Tadori.
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