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Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
19 Jun 2025 01:36 #114730
by TwoRazorReign
In the below card text examples, use of parentheses in the first two is correct, while use of parentheses in the last two is not.
Correct:
Talbot’s Chainsaw: "The bearer gets 1 press (mandatory)."
Conditioning: “+2 bleed (limited).”
Incorrect:
The Baron: “The Baron has 2 votes (titled).”
Change of Target: “the action ends (unsuccessfully).”
The difference between these two uses of parenthetical text is subtle and only becomes clear when it is understood how parentheses are used in English to offset nonrestrictive text, which is text that can be removed without changing the core meaning of the whole text. “(limited)” and “(mandatory)” are correct because by default, all action modifiers modifying bleed amounts are limited to 1, and all presses are mandatory unless explicitly stated they are optional. Thus, the “(limited)” or “(mandatory)” text can be removed and the meaning is unchanged. This is not the case for “(titled)” and “(unsuccessfully),” where removal of the parenthetical text changes the meaning (from titled to additional votes and unsuccessfully ended action to successfully ended action, respectively).
While it is true parentheses are used to offset text that is giving extra information, this should only be done in cases where the core meaning of the sentence would be unaffected by removal of the text in parentheses (some other cards with non-reminder text do this). It may be good practice to use parenthetical text only for reminder text and remove parentheses and recast text that is giving extra information that also happens to be essential to the core meaning of the card text (for example, “The Baron has 2 titled votes”; “the action ends unsuccessfully”).
Correct:
Talbot’s Chainsaw: "The bearer gets 1 press (mandatory)."
Conditioning: “+2 bleed (limited).”
Incorrect:
The Baron: “The Baron has 2 votes (titled).”
Change of Target: “the action ends (unsuccessfully).”
The difference between these two uses of parenthetical text is subtle and only becomes clear when it is understood how parentheses are used in English to offset nonrestrictive text, which is text that can be removed without changing the core meaning of the whole text. “(limited)” and “(mandatory)” are correct because by default, all action modifiers modifying bleed amounts are limited to 1, and all presses are mandatory unless explicitly stated they are optional. Thus, the “(limited)” or “(mandatory)” text can be removed and the meaning is unchanged. This is not the case for “(titled)” and “(unsuccessfully),” where removal of the parenthetical text changes the meaning (from titled to additional votes and unsuccessfully ended action to successfully ended action, respectively).
While it is true parentheses are used to offset text that is giving extra information, this should only be done in cases where the core meaning of the sentence would be unaffected by removal of the text in parentheses (some other cards with non-reminder text do this). It may be good practice to use parenthetical text only for reminder text and remove parentheses and recast text that is giving extra information that also happens to be essential to the core meaning of the card text (for example, “The Baron has 2 titled votes”; “the action ends unsuccessfully”).
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- TwoRazorReign
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19 Jun 2025 05:40 #114733
by Ankha
Change of Target: since the action was blocked, it is unsuccessful by definition.
Replied by Ankha on topic Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
No. "The Baron has 2 votes" means he has a title of his own (not to be mistaken with "Mithras gets +2 votes")Incorrect:
The Baron: “The Baron has 2 votes (titled).”
Change of Target: “the action ends (unsuccessfully).”
This is not the case for “(titled)” and “(unsuccessfully),” where removal of the parenthetical text changes the meaning (from titled to additional votes and unsuccessfully ended action to successfully ended action, respectively).
Change of Target: since the action was blocked, it is unsuccessful by definition.
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19 Jun 2025 17:48 #114738
by emime
Emiliano "Sans Terre" - Wandering Player - Prince of Brussels
Replied by emime on topic Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
Incorrect:
whole OP
whole OP

Emiliano "Sans Terre" - Wandering Player - Prince of Brussels
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02 Jul 2025 09:11 - 02 Jul 2025 09:39 #114825
by Bloodartist
Action would be unsuccessful if the block is resolved, which it is not in the case of change of target, since action ends before that. The latest "Change of target" card text makes this clear since it states that its usable only before block resolution.
I think the use of parentheses is incorrect here since leaving the word out would create needless ambiguity between action resolving unsuccessfully and action simply being canceled (meaning its neither successful nor unsuccessful and NRA rule does not apply). Thus the word "unsuccessfully" is actually meaningful in the context, and we shouldn't use parentheses.
Reminder: rulebook states that the block has to be resolved in order for the action to count as either successful or unsuccessful. So if the action ends before the block is resolved, we need to always state how it ends.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
Change of Target: since the action was blocked, it is unsuccessful by definition.
Action would be unsuccessful if the block is resolved, which it is not in the case of change of target, since action ends before that. The latest "Change of target" card text makes this clear since it states that its usable only before block resolution.
I think the use of parentheses is incorrect here since leaving the word out would create needless ambiguity between action resolving unsuccessfully and action simply being canceled (meaning its neither successful nor unsuccessful and NRA rule does not apply). Thus the word "unsuccessfully" is actually meaningful in the context, and we shouldn't use parentheses.
Reminder: rulebook states that the block has to be resolved in order for the action to count as either successful or unsuccessful. So if the action ends before the block is resolved, we need to always state how it ends.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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Last edit: 02 Jul 2025 09:39 by Bloodartist.
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02 Jul 2025 21:36 #114830
by Ankha
Remember to include cardtext with your post:
Change of Target
Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution.
Unlock this minion, and the action ends (unsuccessfully). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn.
Replied by Ankha on topic Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
No. The action being blocked leads to the resolution of the block.
Change of Target: since the action was blocked, it is unsuccessful by definition.
Action would be unsuccessful if the block is resolved
Sure, but the block resolution has nothing to do with the status (successful or unsuccessful) of the action., which it is not in the case of change of target, since action ends before that. The latest "Change of target" card text makes this clear since it states that its usable only before block resolution.
Remember to include cardtext with your post:
Change of Target
Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution.
Unlock this minion, and the action ends (unsuccessfully). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn.
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02 Jul 2025 21:38 - 03 Jul 2025 06:22 #114831
by Ankha
3. the Methuselah who has declared the current block attempt may use effects that force the currently blocking to attempt to block (no other minion can attempt to block until this block attempt is resolved)
Replied by Ankha on topic Use of parentheses in non-reminder text is sometimes incorrect
This could be misleading, but we are talking about the resolution of the block attempt, not the resolution of the block. See point 3 which refers to the same concept:
Reminder: rulebook states that the block has to be resolved in order for the action to count as either successful or unsuccessful. So if the action ends before the block is resolved, we need to always state how it ends.
3. the Methuselah who has declared the current block attempt may use effects that force the currently blocking to attempt to block (no other minion can attempt to block until this block attempt is resolved)
Last edit: 03 Jul 2025 06:22 by Ankha.
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