file New set in 2012

21 Nov 2011 17:01 #15281 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Re: New set in 2012
I just wish they will do some :QUI: card that will bring this discipline on par with other disciplines. Right now there is no point in playing it other than it's existence on some vampires.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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21 Nov 2011 17:18 - 21 Nov 2011 17:20 #15288 by echiang
Replied by echiang on topic Re: New set in 2012

I just wish they will do some :QUI: card that will bring this discipline on par with other disciplines. Right now there is no point in playing it other than it's existence on some vampires.

Black Sunrise? Blood Awakening? Deed the Heart's Desire? Loss? Retain the Quick Blood (with :CEL:)? Selective Silence? Stackable Strike at the True Flesh? Succulent Vitae? Thin Blood?

Blood Sweat is still the best single card for doing lots of unpreventable damage. Blood Clots is surprisingly good (though very underplayed). Lots of disciplines would love to see their own version of Taste of Death.

Between CrimethInc, Principia Discordia, Steely Tenacity, and Undue Influence, Quietus also has some of the *best* Anarch effects.

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Last edit: 21 Nov 2011 17:20 by echiang.

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21 Nov 2011 17:55 - 21 Nov 2011 17:57 #15310 by Lech
Replied by Lech on topic Re: New set in 2012
Excuse me, but none of those is good.

Black Sunrise is just a wake, most discipline based wakes are better (eyes of argus, predator communion, sense the savage way, speak with spirits) and offer intercept in many cases.

Deed is pre-emptive card that is worse than seduction and have pre-requisites that make it unplayable non-star deck and there is too costly to be worth it.

Superior loss is inferior govern or presence +2 bleed.

Retain is just weak, and will be weak. Window of blood gain is narrow and celerity cards that cost blood are anyway not worth playing in most cases. It's action that is easy to block as it have just +1 innate stealth. Overall, it's wallpaper.

Selective Silence is just weak card, setting range that cost blood to play strike card that cost blood and deal with hitback and combat ends is plain awful combat strategy.

Strike is not worth it with immortal grapple and long range combat and resource-intensive melee combat based on quietus. It just give additional damage and prevention is not something you are facing all the time.

Succulent vitae is wallpaper.

Thin Blood is also wallpaper, require close range to trade 1 blood for 2 blood.

Taste of Death is inferior to Breath of the Dragon, lots of diciplines would love to see their own version of breath of the dragon.

CrimethInc and Steely are nice, undue is mostly played for its presence effect, principia is wallpaper.

Are you seriously arguing that quietus is on the same powerlevel as dominate or presence, or even animalism ?

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2011 17:57 by Lech.

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21 Nov 2011 18:16 #15316 by Dorrinal
Replied by Dorrinal on topic Re: New set in 2012

...celerity cards that cost blood are anyway not worth playing in most cases.

Oh Blur and Resist Earth's Grasp are just awful I know...

:trem:

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21 Nov 2011 18:16 #15317 by echiang
Replied by echiang on topic Re: New set in 2012

Black Sunrise is just a wake, most discipline based wakes are better (eyes of argus, predator communion, sense the savage way, speak with spirits) and offer intercept in many cases.

Eyes of Argus doesn't untap you (the trick with Black Sunrise is to untap all your guys on a +1 stealth action that you don't successfully block). Predator's Communion can't be used against allies. Sense the Savage Way requires big vampires. Speak with Spirits requires a rare Bloodlines discipline.

Deed is pre-emptive card that is worse than seduction and have pre-requisites that make it unplayable non-star deck and there is too costly to be worth it.

Seduction doesn't prevent your bleed from getting bounced or reduced.

Superior loss is inferior govern or presence +2 bleed.

Comparing it to the best cards in the game isn't very useful.

Auspex, Animalism, Celerity, Chimerstry, Fortitude, Necromancy, Obtenebration, Potence, Protean, Serpentis, and Vicissitude would all love an action that costs 1 blood and lets you bleed at +2 at superior.

Retain is just weak, and will be weak. Window of blood gain is narrow and celerity cards that cost blood are anyway not worth playing in most cases. It's action that is easy to block as it have just +1 innate stealth. Overall, it's wallpaper.

Retain is especially good with Celerity cards. I agree it is not as useful for Quietus, but it still has its uses.

Selective Silence is just weak card, setting range that cost blood to play strike card that cost blood and deal with hitback and combat ends is plain awful combat strategy.

Range setting trumps maneuvers. Set range to close and then use :POT: for Immortal Grapple. Selective Silence to long guarantees you can play your S:CE (and not be grappled yourself).

Strike is not worth it with immortal grapple and long range combat and resource-intensive melee combat based on quietus. It just give additional damage and prevention is not something you are facing all the time.

If you're not facing Grapple, you can use Weighted Walking Stick and with 4-cap Sajid (or 3-cap Harika with the Path of Blood) play as many Strike at the True Flesh as you want.

You never have to worry about long range combat since you can just set range to close with Selective Silence.

Succulent vitae is wallpaper.

Thin Blood is also wallpaper, require close range to trade 1 blood for 2 blood.

I disagree. They're both good cards. Not amazing, but hardly wallpaper.

Taste of Death is inferior to Breath of the Dragon, lots of diciplines would love to see their own version of breath of the dragon.

Yes, and Breath of the Dragon is worse than Conflagration. So what's your point?

Most disciplines don't have access to agg. They'd love something like Taste of Death.

Thamaturgy's Burst of Sunlight and Walk of Flame are far worse than Taste of Death. Heck, I was thrilled when they got outferior Flames of the Netherworld (which is still worse than Taste of Death). I was happy with that, rather than complaining about how it's worse than Taste of Death, or worse than Breath of the Dragon, or worse than Conflagration.

Animalism has Song in the Dark, which is much worse than Taste of Death.

Protean has Body Flare, which is much worse than Taste of Death. And let's not even get into Body of Sun or Mythic Form.

Necromancy has Breath of Thanatos and Torment the Soul, which are far worse.

Are you seriously arguing that quietus is on the same powerlevel as dominate or presence, or even animalism ?

No, not even in the slightest.

I'm just pointing out that Quietus has some good cards, and that there are some decks worth building.

Not every discipline can be Dominate, or Presence or Animalism. (Or Obeah or Temporis for that matter).

By definition, top-tier means that there is some sort of hierarchy. If every discipline (or clan) was top-tier, then the term would sort of be meaningless.

Quietus has had issues in the past, but it has gotten significantly better over time. In fact, I think it's surpassed Necromancy at this point (which started off strong, but has tapered off significantly).

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21 Nov 2011 21:30 #15349 by TorranceCircle
Replied by TorranceCircle on topic Re: New set in 2012

Black Sunrise is just a wake, most discipline based wakes are better (eyes of argus, predator communion, sense the savage way, speak with spirits) and offer intercept in many cases.

Eyes of Argus doesn't untap you (the trick with Black Sunrise is to untap all your guys on a +1 stealth action that you don't successfully block). Predator's Communion can't be used against allies. Sense the Savage Way requires big vampires. Speak with Spirits requires a rare Bloodlines discipline.

Deed is pre-emptive card that is worse than seduction and have pre-requisites that make it unplayable non-star deck and there is too costly to be worth it.

Seduction doesn't prevent your bleed from getting bounced or reduced.

Superior loss is inferior govern or presence +2 bleed.

Comparing it to the best cards in the game isn't very useful.

Auspex, Animalism, Celerity, Chimerstry, Fortitude, Necromancy, Obtenebration, Potence, Protean, Serpentis, and Vicissitude would all love an action that costs 1 blood and lets you bleed at +2 at superior.

Retain is just weak, and will be weak. Window of blood gain is narrow and celerity cards that cost blood are anyway not worth playing in most cases. It's action that is easy to block as it have just +1 innate stealth. Overall, it's wallpaper.

Retain is especially good with Celerity cards. I agree it is not as useful for Quietus, but it still has its uses.

Selective Silence is just weak card, setting range that cost blood to play strike card that cost blood and deal with hitback and combat ends is plain awful combat strategy.

Range setting trumps maneuvers. Set range to close and then use :POT: for Immortal Grapple. Selective Silence to long guarantees you can play your S:CE (and not be grappled yourself).

Strike is not worth it with immortal grapple and long range combat and resource-intensive melee combat based on quietus. It just give additional damage and prevention is not something you are facing all the time.

If you're not facing Grapple, you can use Weighted Walking Stick and with 4-cap Sajid (or 3-cap Harika with the Path of Blood) play as many Strike at the True Flesh as you want.

You never have to worry about long range combat since you can just set range to close with Selective Silence.

Succulent vitae is wallpaper.

Thin Blood is also wallpaper, require close range to trade 1 blood for 2 blood.

I disagree. They're both good cards. Not amazing, but hardly wallpaper.

Taste of Death is inferior to Breath of the Dragon, lots of diciplines would love to see their own version of breath of the dragon.

Yes, and Breath of the Dragon is worse than Conflagration. So what's your point?

Most disciplines don't have access to agg. They'd love something like Taste of Death.

Thamaturgy's Burst of Sunlight and Walk of Flame are far worse than Taste of Death. Heck, I was thrilled when they got outferior Flames of the Netherworld (which is still worse than Taste of Death). I was happy with that, rather than complaining about how it's worse than Taste of Death, or worse than Breath of the Dragon, or worse than Conflagration.

Animalism has Song in the Dark, which is much worse than Taste of Death.

Protean has Body Flare, which is much worse than Taste of Death. And let's not even get into Body of Sun or Mythic Form.

Necromancy has Breath of Thanatos and Torment the Soul, which are far worse.

Are you seriously arguing that quietus is on the same powerlevel as dominate or presence, or even animalism ?

No, not even in the slightest.

I'm just pointing out that Quietus has some good cards, and that there are some decks worth building.

Not every discipline can be Dominate, or Presence or Animalism. (Or Obeah or Temporis for that matter).

By definition, top-tier means that there is some sort of hierarchy. If every discipline (or clan) was top-tier, then the term would sort of be meaningless.

Quietus has had issues in the past, but it has gotten significantly better over time. In fact, I think it's surpassed Necromancy at this point (which started off strong, but has tapered off significantly).



I agree with this.

Two other things:
-bundi + strike at the true flesh seems good to me, throw in some aditional stikes and you can send a vamp to torpor easily.

-after you block, selective silence + taste of death + rotshreck seems good too.

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