New set in 2012

I get the impression that we now just repeat the same arguments over and over again. In my opinion we should stop to feed THE TROLL (tm). There are two different opinions and neither side likes to step back.
Though I don't want to risk a rebuke from Kev again in my opinion the pov.s are clear now and everybody can make up their minds. (I stop now reading this thread, do whatever you want.)

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

This way, they are SURE no lawyers come knocking looking to sue people.

Would distributing a book as a PDF be acceptable if you clearly stated that the users should not use a professional printer, and no proper binding was allowed?

You could still get sued and it would still be unethical. I really hope VEKN will at least implement a supplemental tournament format without the neo-vtes cards for those of us who want to play the real game.

Cyrus wrote:

I really hope VEKN will at least implement a supplemental tournament format without the neo-vtes cards for those of us who want to play the real game.

The Tournament Format for the real game is called Standard Constructed. Reality is:
-We don't have a company releasing the game
-The fans want to keep it going, the competitors want to keep competing, the friends from all over the Continents that made friendships around this game still want to meet to play it in events, the fans that want to keep having friendlies in their towns want the game to have support, and all of this was happening before and will continue.
Maybe not at the same rates. But the game will probably survive for a long time. This new set is a step in that direction.

What you seem to be talking about is a Constructed Tournament with Set Limits, as per 6.1.1 in the Tournament Rules.

To me, any previous released card in a protector is exactly as real as one of such cards with a printed sheet of paper covering it, IF it holds to VEKN rules.
It is the price we have to pay for having no company releasing this and all its pros and cons have been tirelessly debated here.

Please lets not start a discussion about the word "real".
We all understand what Cyrus means. I just wanted to point out that the new cards will be real for the most of us and that they should have the same rules rights and restrictions as any other VtES card previously released by WotC or CCP/WW.

BTW: VEKN can do the new sets in the format that has been explained with 100% assurance that it is legal.
Doing something else (whatever it might be) might be illegal.
This does not compare with the distribution of a book in PDF, because we are distributing new cards, not ones previously released.
In fact, that is the reason CCP themselves changed the art in new releases of certain past cards. To avoid the infringement of art copyright.

Cheers!
Tiago

Cyrus,
The precedent has been set by other games taken over by the community. AFAIK Trek:CCG works that way, and others. As long as there aren't companies making significant profits from the centralised actions of the card creators, there has been no real action by the companies.

Reproducing someone else's book in any format breaches copyright. The issue here is that we can create new things that will use someone elses copyrighted material (Princes, Disciplines, Capacities, Generation, Clans, the "Tap Mechanic", etc) without either copying their entire work. Hence the mention of the other CCGs what have become community-run.

The PDF sets are 'real VTES' just not 'real money-making VTES'.

I really hope they'd make more group 5 Tremere Antitribu. There are only two vampires at the moment is there not?