State of the V:EKN - May 1
02 May 2012 22:50 #29340
by KevinM
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
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Replied by KevinM on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
Let's be honest: You did not HAVE to go public. There was no procedure, person, or force coercing you to make public previously private issues. Your choice was to go public to make known what you perceived to be existing issues.When I felt there was no further recourse to appeal my situation as part of the Design Team, I had to go public.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
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03 May 2012 04:41 #29342
by Ohlmann
Let's be honest : if you fear that kind of thing going public, there is a problem bad enough to be public.
The fact that it have actually worsened after that is also enough proof for me. The thing that I am not sure is what happened and whether the IC is very bad at handling problem or is actively trying to bleach its underpants so that nobody took them red handed.
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
Let's be honest: You did not HAVE to go public. There was no procedure, person, or force coercing you to make public previously private issues. Your choice was to go public to make known what you perceived to be existing issues.
Let's be honest : if you fear that kind of thing going public, there is a problem bad enough to be public.
The fact that it have actually worsened after that is also enough proof for me. The thing that I am not sure is what happened and whether the IC is very bad at handling problem or is actively trying to bleach its underpants so that nobody took them red handed.
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03 May 2012 05:08 - 03 May 2012 05:20 #29343
by Pascal Bertrand
Or do you mean that one of them should be read as what you think it is/what you think it should be?
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
You do realize you're stating something and its opposite in two consecutive sentences?More importantly, those [Inner Circle] positions are not defined vis a vis the National Coordinators, who clearly play some role in their election.
Moreover, it disturbs me that the NCs are not being consulted on this important structural matter.
Or do you mean that one of them should be read as what you think it is/what you think it should be?
Last edit: 03 May 2012 05:20 by Pascal Bertrand.
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03 May 2012 06:17 #29345
by johannes
Kevin didn´t talk about who fears what. He stated the simple fact that it was not a necessity to go public but a voluntary decision Jeff took after he wouldn´t accept the decisions of the Inner Circle.
Did you ever think about the fact that the IC was maybe too decent to drag out private communication into the public just for the fact to discredit Jeff? Just because Jeff goes to that level, we don´t have to.
I can take hard and well placed criticism, see my discussion with Izaak, but I get the impression that you are not really looking for answers, from my perception you are trolling around. I can´t understand why, but if you would be so kind to PM me your name and city I could at least place you somewhere in the whole picture. If you don´t want to, fine, just a polite request from my side.
Replied by johannes on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
Let's be honest: You did not HAVE to go public. There was no procedure, person, or force coercing you to make public previously private issues. Your choice was to go public to make known what you perceived to be existing issues.
Let's be honest : if you fear that kind of thing going public, there is a problem bad enough to be public.
Kevin didn´t talk about who fears what. He stated the simple fact that it was not a necessity to go public but a voluntary decision Jeff took after he wouldn´t accept the decisions of the Inner Circle.
The fact that it have actually worsened after that is also enough proof for me. The thing that I am not sure is what happened and whether the IC is very bad at handling problem or is actively trying to bleach its underpants so that nobody took them red handed.
Did you ever think about the fact that the IC was maybe too decent to drag out private communication into the public just for the fact to discredit Jeff? Just because Jeff goes to that level, we don´t have to.
I can take hard and well placed criticism, see my discussion with Izaak, but I get the impression that you are not really looking for answers, from my perception you are trolling around. I can´t understand why, but if you would be so kind to PM me your name and city I could at least place you somewhere in the whole picture. If you don´t want to, fine, just a polite request from my side.
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03 May 2012 06:21 #29346
by johannes
I think there is just a bit of fuzziness on words. Tiago say he voted because I let the NCs vote on certain matters to help in forming my opinion. That vote does not lead to a mandatory decision but it plays a big role leading up to the decision.
The V:EKN works very much as Jussi perceives it. NCs (Voting Representatives) vote for the Chairman. The Chairman appoints the Ministers (IC members with a dedicated department).
Replied by johannes on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
So, what's really going on here? It seems to me like there are conflicting accounts of who voted for whom.
Johannes claims he appointed the Inner Circle members.
Tiago says he voted for Inner Circle members.
I would like to believe the V:EKN operates as Jussi believes. If you are elected to a post, you serve (ultimately) at the whim of that constituency, not the other way around.
I think there is just a bit of fuzziness on words. Tiago say he voted because I let the NCs vote on certain matters to help in forming my opinion. That vote does not lead to a mandatory decision but it plays a big role leading up to the decision.
The V:EKN works very much as Jussi perceives it. NCs (Voting Representatives) vote for the Chairman. The Chairman appoints the Ministers (IC members with a dedicated department).
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03 May 2012 06:31 - 03 May 2012 06:35 #29347
by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Re: State of the V:EKN - May 1
VEKN is not a huge corporation.
Nor it is a money making entity; actually there is, AFAIK, no money involved at all in VEKN.
All that we need is capable volunteers that are willing to devote their own free time, free of charge, to the game that we all love. No one is about to benefit money-vise from VEKN.
We do not need rigid guidelines and rules to resrict common sense. All we need is to have the things run smoothly in our VTES-train, not people pulling emergency brakes for, the way I start to see it, their hurt egos.
I see little reason for the Inner Circle or the Chairman to ask the legion of NCs, many of which don't really feel the need to hang around here or follow up the daily minutae, about basically anything.
Earlier on in this thread I noticed [EDIT:]Mr Amenophobis irrately demanding answers to the questions he had prepared in goo dtime -how long would you think it would take to answer if IC/Chariman needed NCs to consult/vote for all such minuae things? Day? Two? Week? Three weeks? Personally I'd be inclined towards the latter and even then all NCs wouldn't have taken part in the decision.
Kinda appropriately I'd be inclined to comment that like, say, Camarilla in the game, VEKN isn't a bleeding democracy.
Nor does it need to be.
Things have been running well enough without it being such.
Actually better than under White Wolf.
So please stop rocking the boat, m'okay?
Nor it is a money making entity; actually there is, AFAIK, no money involved at all in VEKN.
All that we need is capable volunteers that are willing to devote their own free time, free of charge, to the game that we all love. No one is about to benefit money-vise from VEKN.
We do not need rigid guidelines and rules to resrict common sense. All we need is to have the things run smoothly in our VTES-train, not people pulling emergency brakes for, the way I start to see it, their hurt egos.
I see little reason for the Inner Circle or the Chairman to ask the legion of NCs, many of which don't really feel the need to hang around here or follow up the daily minutae, about basically anything.
Earlier on in this thread I noticed [EDIT:]Mr Amenophobis irrately demanding answers to the questions he had prepared in goo dtime -how long would you think it would take to answer if IC/Chariman needed NCs to consult/vote for all such minuae things? Day? Two? Week? Three weeks? Personally I'd be inclined towards the latter and even then all NCs wouldn't have taken part in the decision.
Kinda appropriately I'd be inclined to comment that like, say, Camarilla in the game, VEKN isn't a bleeding democracy.
Nor does it need to be.
Things have been running well enough without it being such.
Actually better than under White Wolf.
So please stop rocking the boat, m'okay?
Finnish
Politics!

Last edit: 03 May 2012 06:35 by Lönkka. Reason: Name correction
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