Thoughts on openness, canon

Negotiating who gets what out when across the table from a nearly identical deck is part of the many strategies of the game, while doing it with you predator or prey is a very risky tactic that still gets beads off the table. only contesting titles is weak enough to only cost blood. contesting is very important to the game, and to balancing the power of titles.

I think if anything, more abilities like Zanes or interactions like power struggle would make the game more interesting. things hosing your whole deck make you more likely to re-evaluate blocking priorities, adding depth to many situations. I just wish titled Indy vamps like Zayyat could go anarch and keep two votes.

I'd also like to add that pentex , fame, and secure haven being contestable is One of the easiest ways to get them out of play, even temporarily. same with Jack. its part of game balancing tactics. its useful every four games, annoying every twenty or so.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

I just wish titled Indy vamps like Zayyat could go anarch and keep two votes.

Zayyat or any other titled independent can go anarch and keep their votes via Anarch Secession. Heck they can even use Into the Fire, become Sabbat and still keep their title. The this Vampire has x votes [titled] are tied to said vampires not to their independent status, so as long as they don't gain any other title they keep their votes.

Name: Anarch Secession
[KMW:R]
Cardtype: Action
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready, non-anarch, titled vampire.
Put an anarch counter on this acting vampire. This vampire becomes anarch (and Independent). If he or she had a city title, put this card on him or her as a title card to represent the title of baron of the same city. Minions without titles cannot block this action. Burn the anarch counter if this vampire changes sects.
Artist: David Day

Name: Into the Fire
[Anarchs:C]
Cardtype: Master
Master. Trifle.
Choose a ready non-Sabbat vampire you control. That vampire becomes Sabbat. (His or her clan is not affected.)
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

Whisker wrote:

Zayyat or any other titled independent can go anarch and keep their votes via Anarch Secession.

Actually, any titled, period. The whole point of the card is that princes and archbishops (so, Camarilla and Sabbat) keep their titles in a form of baronhood.

Whisker wrote:

Heck they can even use Into the Fire, become Sabbat and still keep their title.

Nope, because of the Anarch Secession text - he changes sect, he stops being anarch. You cannot be a baron without being anarch. Being a Baron is not the same as being titled (x votes).

I was actually talking about just the going anarch the hard way action. succession is an over priced card but I love it from a Canon view point and from a stance of taking the baron title for a city.

but its still cards to draw. imagine what zayyat and Mata hari could do with the anarch discipline cards such as crimthinc and undue influence if the could just go anarch as a base action. Little quietus on both is suddenly for. something other than foul blood.

Well, I don't see any reason (either from lore or from gameplay balance) for which independant vampires would keep theirs titles and vote more than anybody else.

What may be added is that titled vampires lose theirs title instead of being unable to became anarch.

Giving to all titled vampires the ability to go anarch without losing their vote seem excessive ; also, even simply Villon going Anarch seem extremely odd, not to mention the justicar or inner circle.

Kiddo wrote:

Whisker wrote:

Zayyat or any other titled independent can go anarch and keep their votes via Anarch Secession.

Actually, any titled, period. The whole point of the card is that princes and archbishops (so, Camarilla and Sabbat) keep their titles in a form of baronhood.

Umm, no! Innercircle, Primogen, bishop or any other vampire with a sect title not bound to a city will lose their votes [innert title] if they use Anarch secession.

Whisker wrote:

Heck they can even use Into the Fire, become Sabbat and still keep their title.

Nope, because of the Anarch Secession text - he changes sect, he stops being anarch. You cannot be a baron without being anarch. Being a Baron is not the same as being titled (x votes).

Again I was talking about Zayyat and other indie vampires with personal [has x votes] title. I wanted to point out that using sect changing cards such as Anarch Secession or Into the Fire in no way affects those personal titles. So using Anarch secession on Zayyat turns him in [non Baron] anarch with 2 votes. And using Into the Fire om him will turn him to a sabbat with 2 votes.

But this has nothing to do with our topic of openness and canon so let's start a new topic if you want to futher discuss tactical uses of above mentioned cards.