compress Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!


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28 Jun 2011 15:47 #5535 by elotar

No additional rules fGS!

My present list of problematic masters:
both DI

And only villein is too powerful, all others are just bad designed.

Sudden Reversal and Wash? Are you serious? :blink:

Yea. "counterspell" is generally boring and frustrating mechanic, and in vtes it also disrupts the flow of the game, where there are almost no other "responce" cards.

:splat: NC Russia

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28 Jun 2011 16:20 #5536 by Mephistopheles
I think Sudden and Wash are very solid and well balanced cards that this game really needs.

However I loathe Direct Intervention and Dark Tranquility, because they are the only card in the entire game you can't prepare for and defend against. Sure the later gives you a defense against the first, but you never really gonna play more than 1 copy of it, so chances are quite low there...

See when a Vessel, Hunting Ground, Skill Card or whatever gets canceled, that rarely will ruin your entire turn. Your minions will be still save and you can re-plan your actions in time.

But DI? You plan your entire turn, make the math and then you run into a DI. Your basically screwed. A DI on your Immortal Grapple that will save your main vampire from an Ivory Bow, a DI on the crucial Elder Impersonation so the Tzimisce can block you, a DI on the Conditioning played on bleed going on with Daring the Dawn, etc.
You just can't prepare and quite often it'll cost you the game. Still wouldn't ban it or nerf it. Just saying that it's far worse than Sudden or Wash.

NC for Hungary
The following user(s) said Thank You: Gargoylee

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28 Jun 2011 20:48 #5554 by Demnogonis Saastuttaja
Cool idea. Myself I favour banning cards though. Another dead CCG, Star Trek, has a bunch of rules, erratas and complicated stuff that don't read on the cards, and it's always a pain in the ass to check.

I don't think Villein is one of the problem masters though, the problems are Golconda, the too cheap MPA minions themselves, LB and Giant's Blood. And Parity Shift ;)


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28 Jun 2011 22:02 #5557 by Dervish
Honestly I disagree with you premise, while not all masters are equal, I've not experienced any of them being TOO POWERFUL. What I do see is bad meta game environments and decks that are too 1d and can't do anything different and hence die.

If you could give me an example of TOO powerful, I'd love to know, but while I dislike Villein strongly (imo it should have been 4 pool min), I don't think it's too good, nor have I ever seen a game where I felt that way.

I've love to "be convinced" but I don't think it will happen. As a game mechanic, I'd have no problem with your idea if Vtes went back into production.


More evidence that your deck need not be good in order to win:

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29 Jun 2011 01:03 #5561 by Juggernaut1981
I don't think that this kind of rule should be added. It is a needless complexity.

My own view on Villein is simple: It should not be playable on a vampire with less than 2 blood.

Any card which is an 'automatic inclusion' or a card which must always be considered during deck building (i.e. played by your prey/pred) should be either overpowered or at least close to overpowered.

This would immediately put the following cards into contention:
Carlton Van Wyk
Pentex Subversion
Giants Blood

I don't really see too many other cards turning up so frequently in people's consideration or decklists.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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29 Jun 2011 05:10 - 29 Jun 2011 05:15 #5563 by elotar
Few words about Giant Blood - it's much less powerful then it seems (Earlier I too think it must be banned, but changed my mind).

It's useless if smd played it first.
Everything equal, your chance to sucсesfully play it is 1/num of players having it in decks.

So your avarage gain from it is lower, than (max capasity in your crypt)/(num of players you expect to play it at table).

4 example if you got Nana B in europe, the numbers are 8/4= 2 blood from one master. Not so good.

Real number depens on the meta, but jenerally at tournament level I think it's playable only in big cap decks.

:splat: NC Russia
Last edit: 29 Jun 2011 05:15 by elotar.

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