Infernal Familiar Burn timing

Okay a follow-up "question".

If a vampire with IF, lets say Saiz, plays this card:

Enticement
Type: Action
Requires: Serpentis
Requires the Edge.
[ser] Burn the Edge to cause your prey to burn 2 pool. (This action is directed at your prey.) Your minions cannot attempt bleed actions for the remainder of the turn.


If nobody blocks this action your prey burns 2 pool, you loose the edge and Saiz gets a counter on IF.
But if the action is blocked you don't loose the edge but you still get the counter on IF! i don't see how that is posible. Playing cards that Saiz can't play has the increased cost of a counter. Even if you don't get to play the card. Can someone explain?

Baaliprimogen wrote:

If nobody blocks this action your prey burns 2 pool, you loose the edge and Saiz gets a counter on IF.

No. When Saiz plays the card, he gets the counter. That is, way back at the beginning of the action, he gets the counter.

Baaliprimogen wrote:

But if the action is blocked you don't loose the edge but you still get the counter on IF!

You get the counter right at the start of the action.

Baaliprimogen wrote:

i don't see how that is posible. Playing cards that Saiz can't play has the increased cost of a counter. Even if you don't get to play the card. Can someone explain?

The Infernal Familiar counter is not a cost. It's just something that happens at a particular time.

And it sounds like you're confused about the difference between playing an action card (right at the beginning of the action), and the action being successful. You get the counter when you play the card - if you "don't get to play the card", no counter. But playing an action card is not the same as action resolution.

I get that but is there a difference with the burn edge text of the Enticement?

See section 6.2 of the rulebook.
www.vekn.net/index.php/rulebook/6-minion-phase

The card is played. Infernal Familiar gets a counter. THEN you resolve the action. You do NOT burn the edge until the action resolves -- that is the difference.

Baaliprimogen wrote:

I get that but is there a difference with the burn edge text of the Enticement?

Why would there be?

Burning the edge is a cost for resolving the action. If you can't burn the edge (say, you've lost it during the action already somehow), the action will fizzle.

Could you explain the thought process that makes you think the 'burn edge' text on the card has any impact on Infernal Familiar? InfFamiliar just happens when the card is played. Whether the action is ultimately successful, unsuccessful, fizzles or the game times-out before you can finish is totally irrelevant. That you think the two can somehow interact probably indicates that you have a subtle but deeply-embedded misunderstanding of an awkward bit of card text or rules.

Burning the edge doesn't have an impact on the familiar. That's just to put it in context. I think the "just happens" effect is not worded good enough. Take a look at superior Enrage:

Enrage
Type: Action
Requires: Presence
+1 stealth action. Frenzy.

  Put this card on any vampire. This vampire must burn 2 blood to attempt any action except hunts and actions to enter combat. Burn this card after resolving this vampire's action.



Here it clearly states that you have to burn 2 blood to attempt.

Here is another card that increases the cost the text:



Blood Cult Awareness Network

Type: Event

Requires: imbued

Inquisition.

Requires a ready imbued in play. Whenever there are any ready imbued in play, any action to put a vampire or ghoul in play or to add counters to an uncontrolled vampire gets -1 stealth and costs an additional blood or life.



Here we increase the cost.





*******************SPOILER*ALERT************

But then I saw Direct Intervention. And now I see. You guys are right. I knew you were, but I just wanted a rule-change and convinced myself it was not the same... Sorry