Tournament rules regarding different backs on cards.

Pascal wrote:

Regarding the back, he difference between a Jyhad card and a Lords of the Night card is that the Jyhad only comes with the Jyahd word on the back. From printers.
If you sleeve a Jyhad card black and a LotN card green, you're creating a difference that isn't inherent to the card.

Judges' wrote:

132. Marked Cards - Observable pattern

Definition:

A player's cards are marked with no pattern to the types of cards that are marked. If a player is using opaque sleeves, they are taken into consideration instead of the actual cards

Would you agree that the advantage gained from using differently coloured sleeves would be the same as the advantage gained from using cards differently printed backs? Assuming the spread is equal in both cases.

yappo wrote:

Pascal wrote:

yappo wrote:

Let's say you're NOT allowed to show your hidden resources to another player. By playing a sleeveless deck after the first V:EKN fan-based set is tournament legal you are indeed SHOWING all players at the table that your deck does not include any cards from said set, which would be illegal.

Incorrect.
Letting other players know you're not playing cards from the VEKN fan-based sets is OK as much as letting other players know you're playing with Jyhad crypt cards (group 1-2 vampires).

So TR 4.4 is followed to the letter?

Yes.

yappo wrote:

In which case I'm allowed to reveal a card on a Storage Annex (because that card is neither in my hand nor in my uncontrolled region).

Wrong. 4.4 doesn't allow this. If you want to know what you can do with cards that are facedown, refer to cardtext: "facedown".

henrik wrote:

Would you agree that the advantage gained from using differently coloured sleeves would be the same as the advantage gained from using cards differently printed backs? Assuming the spread is equal in both cases.

Agreed.

Pascal wrote:

yappo wrote:

So TR 4.4 is followed to the letter?

Yes.

yappo wrote:

In which case I'm allowed to reveal a card on a Storage Annex (because that card is neither in my hand nor in my uncontrolled region).

Wrong. 4.4 doesn't allow this. If you want to know what you can do with cards that are facedown, refer to cardtext: "facedown".

That's strange.

Quoting 4.4: "Players must keep their cards above the level of the playing surface. Revealing cards in your hand or uncontrolled area to any opponent is not allowed."

Following 4.4 to the letter I'm keeping the revelaed card on my Storage Annex above the playing surface. Also following 4.4 to the letter I'm not revealing any card in my uncontrolled region. 4.4 says nothing about "facedown" cards in general, but it does target the facedown cards in my uncontrolled region specifically, which begs the question: what are the rules concerning other facedown cards, or as I termed it earlier, 'hidden resources'.

Obviously I'm perfectly aware that you're not supposed to show face-down cards, but I'm deliberately being an ass-hat and twisting 4.4 in order to point out a problem with the wording.

yappo wrote:

what are the rules concerning other facedown cards, or as I termed it earlier, 'hidden resources'.

Obviously I'm perfectly aware that you're not supposed to show face-down cards, but I'm deliberately being an ass-hat and twisting 4.4 in order to point out a problem with the wording.

You forget to make it clear that you take it for granted that any card should be showable. That's not trivial at all - and also isn't in the rules. My point earlier was that 4.4 doesn't read "you can show other players cards on Storage Annex or in your library".


Would "Cards face up in play (and contested cards) are the only revealed cards" be enough?