Aid from Bats vs. Immortal Grapple

Immortal Grapple

Only usable at close range before strikes are chosen. Grapple.
[pot] Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by either combatant). A vampire may play only one Immortal Grapple each round.
[POT] As above, with an optional press. If another round of combat occurs, that round is at close range; skip the determine range step for that round.


Aid from Bats

[ani] Strike: 1R damage, with an optional maneuver.
[ANI] As above, with an optional press.


One player uses Aid from bats at superior to manuever, second one manuevuers to close range and then plays Immortal Grapple at superior. Player who chose Aid from bats as a strike cannot strike, because of grapple. Can he use press from the Aid from bats? My opinion is that he cannot, because it it part of the strike, which was restricted by Immortal Grapple. Am I correct? Thank you.

If you've played the card for a maneuver, you can use the press (assuming you get to the Press step, obviously), regardless of what happens to your strike.

[LSJ 20070307]

LSJ wrote:

>> Ok. Suppose you use Bats at ANI but get caught under a Grapple anyway
>> after additional maneuvers. Do you get the press then?

> I'd say you gain the press as soon as you play the card. So if you
> have maneuvered with it, you've gained your optional press. That you
> have to forego striking because you have committed to a restricted
> strike doesn't affect the press already gained. You still have played
> this card, and have gained the press already. No retroactive changing
> of that.

Correct.
If the Aid from Bats is not canceled as it is played, then Beast gets an
optional press during the press step of that round.

So, if I play Aid from bat to maneuver to close, then Immortal Grapple, the Aid from the bat give me a press and a maneuver without needing to actually use it as a strike ?

(the difference is being unable to use it as a strike vs actively trying to be unable to use it)

Ohlmann wrote:

So, if I play Aid from bat to maneuver to close, then Immortal Grapple, the Aid from the bat give me a press and a maneuver without needing to actually use it as a strike ?

Well, the Aid from Bats is already chosen as your strike. So if you then play IG after maneuvering to close with the Aid from Bats, you get no strike at all (as you are committed to using the Aid from Bats strike, but can't due to the IG you cleverly played). But then if you have an additional strike, you could punch someone (in the highly regarded ANI/POT/CEL deck...)

bakija wrote:

Ohlmann wrote:

So, if I play Aid from bat to maneuver to close, then Immortal Grapple, the Aid from the bat give me a press and a maneuver without needing to actually use it as a strike ?

Well, the Aid from Bats is already chosen as your strike. So if you then play IG after maneuvering to close with the Aid from Bats, you get no strike at all (as you are committed to using the Aid from Bats strike, but can't due to the IG you cleverly played). But then if you have an additional strike, you could punch someone (in the highly regarded ANI/POT/CEL deck...)

Poor choice of words.
Strikes are chosen in the Strike step ( CRR VI.C ). When maneuvering with Aid from Bats, Slam, .44 Magnum, ..., you're committing yourself to choosing that strike in the VI.C step.

Yes, this might sound like nit-picking. But it also means Aim cards (played "when choosing strike") are played when actually choosing your strike, not when you're committing yourself to choosing one (i.e. maneuvering with a strike card/effect). [LSJ 20080409]

The answer given above by James is correct. The press provided by Aid from Bats isn't provided by the strike, but by the card (and so is the maneuver).

Pascal wrote:

The answer given above by James is correct. The press provided by Aid from Bats isn't provided by the strike, but by the card (and so is the maneuver).

The point at hand was that Ohlmann seemed to be asking if he could use Aid from Bats for just a maneuver and a press and then use a different strike after Immortally Grappling. I certainly could have misunderstood him. But that was what I was addressing.