Is this legal play?
28 Mar 2012 06:57 #26693
by Klaital
Is this legal play? was created by Klaital
Situation.
Vampire A is calling a vote. Prey attempts to block with +1 intercept from eagles sight with vampire B. Vampire A plays shroud of absence for +1 stealth. Vampire B's controller asks his prey (A's predator, only 3 people left) if he can attempt to block it, he says yes, then attempts to block, with a vampire with raven spy, but only after that realizes his vampire is too young to use Kumpania, and thus fails to block, after this Vampire B's controller wants to attempt to block again with another vampire, claiming that he never said no block, which he didn't directly, but isn't passing the opportunity to block to another player the same thing? is this legal?
Vampire A is calling a vote. Prey attempts to block with +1 intercept from eagles sight with vampire B. Vampire A plays shroud of absence for +1 stealth. Vampire B's controller asks his prey (A's predator, only 3 people left) if he can attempt to block it, he says yes, then attempts to block, with a vampire with raven spy, but only after that realizes his vampire is too young to use Kumpania, and thus fails to block, after this Vampire B's controller wants to attempt to block again with another vampire, claiming that he never said no block, which he didn't directly, but isn't passing the opportunity to block to another player the same thing? is this legal?
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28 Mar 2012 07:04 #26694
by jhattara
Jussi Hattara 
Webmaster Extraordinaire 
Finnish
Politics!
Replied by jhattara on topic Re: Is this legal play?
Once prey has given blocking impulse to predator, he can't block again.




Finnish

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28 Mar 2012 08:50 #26701
by Pascal Bertrand
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Is this legal play?
At this point, in order to have the following stpe happen, B must decline declaring block attemps.Situation.
Vampire A is calling a vote. Prey attempts to block with +1 intercept from eagles sight with vampire B. Vampire A plays shroud of absence for +1 stealth. Vampire B's controller asks his prey (A's predator, only 3 people left) if he can attempt to block it, he says yes, then
B should have said "no block" when he gave up on his block attempt and let C declare a block attempt.[C] attempts to block, with a vampire with raven spy, but only after that realizes his vampire is too young to use Kumpania, and thus fails to block, after this Vampire B's controller wants to attempt to block again with another vampire, claiming that he never said no block, which he didn't directly, but isn't passing the opportunity to block to another player the same thing? is this legal?
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28 Mar 2012 10:58 - 28 Mar 2012 11:06 #26711
by jamesatzephyr
Passing the impulse - however you express it - is passing the impulse. And, in the declare blockers phase, means you decline to block. You don't have to explicitly say "no blocks" - although that is obviously simplest. It might be obvious from some other communication. So long as everyone understands.
However, asking your grand-predator if he can block is not (necessarily) the same as passing the impulse. It could just be table talk. For example, the following conversation:
The "Can you block this?" conversation wasn't attempting to pass the impulse, it was attempt to elicit information.
However, in a situation where it goes:
I'd be tempted to point out to the AM's Prey that they had quite a while to interrupt the predator and say "Wait! Wait! I didn't mean for you to block, I was asking for information to decide if I should try instead." Which is to say, if Banjoko did have blood on her, the prey apparently had no intention of 'correcting' the play.
If it was clearly understood that the predator was being given the opportunity to block and the prey didn't stop this, the impulse has probably passed. Much in the same way that a prey who obviously lets a bleed get as far as blocks can't say "Oh well, my block failed, but since I didn't explicitly say I wasn't cancelling the card as it was played, I will rewind and..."
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic Re: Is this legal play?
he never said no block, which he didn't directly, but isn't passing the opportunity to block to another player the same thing? is this legal?
Passing the impulse - however you express it - is passing the impulse. And, in the declare blockers phase, means you decline to block. You don't have to explicitly say "no blocks" - although that is obviously simplest. It might be obvious from some other communication. So long as everyone understands.
However, asking your grand-predator if he can block is not (necessarily) the same as passing the impulse. It could just be table talk. For example, the following conversation:
Acting Meth: I call KRC.
Based on pool totals, it's likely the game will end if this vote is called and passes.
AM's Prey: Can you block this?
AM's Pred (a moderately wall-ish deck): Not sure, probably not - it'll depend on the cards I draw to replace.
AM's Prey: Okay, in which case, I'll attempt it with Isabel de Leon...
Based on pool totals, it's likely the game will end if this vote is called and passes.
AM's Prey: Can you block this?
AM's Pred (a moderately wall-ish deck): Not sure, probably not - it'll depend on the cards I draw to replace.
AM's Prey: Okay, in which case, I'll attempt it with Isabel de Leon...
The "Can you block this?" conversation wasn't attempting to pass the impulse, it was attempt to elicit information.
However, in a situation where it goes:
Acting Meth: I call KRC.
Based on pool totals, it's likely the game will end if this vote is called and passes.
AM's Prey: Can you block this?
AM's Pred: Oh, okay, I'll attempt to block with Banjoko, who plays a Forced Awakening. *replaces card* Okay, now I'll play Ministry. Oh crap, Banjoko doesn't have any blood.
AM's Prey: Since I didn't pass, I'll....
Based on pool totals, it's likely the game will end if this vote is called and passes.
AM's Prey: Can you block this?
AM's Pred: Oh, okay, I'll attempt to block with Banjoko, who plays a Forced Awakening. *replaces card* Okay, now I'll play Ministry. Oh crap, Banjoko doesn't have any blood.
AM's Prey: Since I didn't pass, I'll....
I'd be tempted to point out to the AM's Prey that they had quite a while to interrupt the predator and say "Wait! Wait! I didn't mean for you to block, I was asking for information to decide if I should try instead." Which is to say, if Banjoko did have blood on her, the prey apparently had no intention of 'correcting' the play.
If it was clearly understood that the predator was being given the opportunity to block and the prey didn't stop this, the impulse has probably passed. Much in the same way that a prey who obviously lets a bleed get as far as blocks can't say "Oh well, my block failed, but since I didn't explicitly say I wasn't cancelling the card as it was played, I will rewind and..."
Last edit: 28 Mar 2012 11:06 by jamesatzephyr.
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