More smartass ...: 'as card is played'

Pascal, from your post above, I take it that it is impossible to use Psalm to prevent someone from playing wake and RT.

Have I uderstood this correctly?

If so, there is now that clarification on psalm which I wrote would invalidify my entire chain of arguments.

yappo wrote:

Pascal, from your post above, I take it that it is impossible to use Psalm to prevent someone from playing wake and RT.

Have I uderstood this correctly?

Well, I'm pretty sure you got it, however your message isn't crystal clear.
If someone plays Wake with Evening's Freshness in the "as played" window, the acting minion can't thwart basic temporis Rewind Time with Psalm, as Psalm of the damned isn't playable in the "as played" window.

yappo wrote:

If so, there is now that clarification on psalm which I wrote would invalidify my entire chain of arguments.

It's not really a clarification. It's the Rulebook (and more precisely, the Sequencing section). LSJ's "Correct." is perfectly valid as long as you don't try to read it in another way it was written or intended. If you start wondering if Psalm can be played in the "as played" window, I recommend you check which cards can be played in the "as played" window first.

Suoli wrote:

Chaitan wrote:

Is this limited to action/reaction only? It certainly isn't so when it comes to combat cards and when a methuselah act (see: madness network/enkil cog).

I'm not sure what makes you say that. This is directly from the rulebook:

1.6.1. General
5. Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, she may play another and another. Once she is finished, the opportunity passes to the defending Methuselah (in the cases of directed actions and combat), then to the rest of the Methuselahs in clockwise order from the acting Methuselah. Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to play the next effect.

Ah yes. Now I see the error.

My misunderstanding is that the impulse rules is not equal between methuselahs. Acting methuselah has the ability to insert cards like in the case of Psalm of the Damned. Whereas all other methuselahs has to patiently wait for the impulse.

One question that immediately pops up is how it works when reacting methuselah attempts to cancel a card as it is played when it does not have the impulse (i.e. acting methuselah wants to play more cards after the card reacting wants to cancel).

There is a small "as played" impulse.
It's not fully described, but that's how it works.

Pascal wrote:

yappo wrote:

Pascal, from your post above, I take it that it is impossible to use Psalm to prevent someone from playing wake and RT.

Have I uderstood this correctly?

Well, I'm pretty sure you got it, however your message isn't crystal clear.
If someone plays Wake with Evening's Freshness in the "as played" window, the acting minion can't thwart basic temporis Rewind Time with Psalm, as Psalm of the damned isn't playable in the "as played" window.

yappo wrote:

If so, there is now that clarification on psalm which I wrote would invalidify my entire chain of arguments.

It's not really a clarification. It's the Rulebook (and more precisely, the Sequencing section). LSJ's "Correct." is perfectly valid as long as you don't try to read it in another way it was written or intended. If you start wondering if Psalm can be played in the "as played" window, I recommend you check which cards can be played in the "as played" window first.

Nopes, Perfectly happy now. The reason I found the LSJ ruling troublesome is that it wasn't written as you describe it. I quote:

[start quote]
> You mean, he is incorrect, though your explanation is right. You
> *can* indeed wait until they wake a vampire, then immediately play
> Psalm to tell that vampire it cannot block or play any further
> reactions. I'm 90% sure you can also play it at superior on a vampire
> that is already attempting to block to fail their block. About the
> only thing you can't do is play it in response to a minion playing a
> reaction card (well, you can, but that reaction card is already out of
> the barn, and will take effect regardless).

Correct.
[end qoute]

Note that the 'correct' refers to a text including 'or play any further reactions'. The word 'any' would arguably include RT.

Chaitan wrote:

Suoli wrote:

Chaitan wrote:

Is this limited to action/reaction only? It certainly isn't so when it comes to combat cards and when a methuselah act (see: madness network/enkil cog).

I'm not sure what makes you say that. This is directly from the rulebook:

1.6.1. General
5. Sequencing. If two or more players want to play a card or effect, the acting Methuselah plays first. At every stage, the acting player always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, she may play another and another. Once she is finished, the opportunity passes to the defending Methuselah (in the cases of directed actions and combat), then to the rest of the Methuselahs in clockwise order from the acting Methuselah. Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to play the next effect.

Ah yes. Now I see the error.

My misunderstanding is that the impulse rules is not equal between methuselahs. Acting methuselah has the ability to insert cards like in the case of Psalm of the Damned. Whereas all other methuselahs has to patiently wait for the impulse.

One question that immediately pops up is how it works when reacting methuselah attempts to cancel a card as it is played when it does not have the impulse (i.e. acting methuselah wants to play more cards after the card reacting wants to cancel).

This is also makes combat extremely tricky.

When playing before range combat cards acting methuselah has the option to play all cards before turning over the impulse but acting methuselah also has the option to at any stage in the before range also holding the methuselah from playing a series of cards.

Example:
Both acting and blocking methuselah has these two cards in their hand.
Drawing out the Beast
Terror Frenzy

Acting methuselah starts by playing Drawing out the beast
Acting methuselah decides to wait with terror frenzy and see what happens (gives impulse to blocking methuselah).

Blocking methuselah play Drawing out the Beast.
Before blocking methuselah can continue to play cards acting methuselah throws down a superior terror frenzy on the table stating that any further combat card now cost 1 blood extra.

Wouldn't the rules more more intuitive and easy to remember if all methuselah's followed the same sequencing rules?