file Once more, the Mask of a Thousands...

22 Jan 2014 23:07 #58787 by Rustico Jones
Hi there! This will be my first post here and I want to ask about this card, so many times discussed...

Recently I´ve read in old rulings that minion text is considered to be an effect that would not allow playing Mask of a Thousand Faces to another minion.

<No other minion can use X vampires special text, it is unique to that
particular minion.>

This will include "specific" special texts, such as Nakhthorheb´s, but also more "regular" special texts, such as "+1 bleed" or "+1 stealth". The Ruling said the masking minion cannot use the special text of another minion, even if he has the same one in his own text.
Example 1: Persephone Tar-Anis cannot Mask the bleed action of Rodolfo because the action is declared using Rodolfo´s +1 bleed. Persephone can´t use her own +1 bleed validating the initial (Rodolfo´s) skill. How does this work?
Example2: Nakhthorheb declares an action. As his text says "Minions with your corruption counters cannot block him" this text is an innerent part of the declaration so no minion can Mask any of his actions, no matter there are corruption coounters placed or not. How does this work?

I hope have been able to explain myself...

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22 Jan 2014 23:11 #58788 by Rustico Jones
Sorry, this post is not in the correct place... Said before, my first one...
Please, moderator, place it where it should, with other 'questions'

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23 Jan 2014 05:51 - 23 Jan 2014 05:52 #58789 by ReverendRevolver
Firstly, welcome to the forums!

Second, everyone prefers you provide the card text on these things. Im on a phone, so ill paraphraze some:

Needs to be used by ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion.

Then heres what you are asking about:

. Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire.

Action modifiers are simple to decifer, so "other effects" is what we are after. Id say Nkthorheb may fall into this category, since its has the relevance to the action and its blockability, but im thinking not so much for +bleed, since that wont matter unless the action resolves or a card like AI checks the bleed amount. So, in thoery, Apache Jones or Uncle George can KS bleed, get blocked, and have Persephe or Rudolpho or Rachel Brandywine mask of 1000 faces into the action, and vice versa.

But thats just a card wording interpretation, im not a rulings monger, so others may have some ruling to defy how it reads.
Last edit: 23 Jan 2014 05:52 by ReverendRevolver.

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23 Jan 2014 08:03 #58790 by Ankha

Recently I´ve read in old rulings that minion text is considered to be an effect that would not allow playing Mask of a Thousand Faces to another minion.

Correct, even if it's the same text, such as +1 stealth.

This will include "specific" special texts, such as Nakhthorheb´s, but also more "regular" special texts, such as "+1 bleed"

Only if for some reason, it has been "used". +1 bleed is unlikely to be used before the bleed resolution.

or "+1 stealth"

Correct.

Example 1: Persephone Tar-Anis cannot Mask the bleed action of Rodolfo because the action is declared using Rodolfo´s +1 bleed. Persephone can´t use her own +1 bleed validating the initial (Rodolfo´s) skill. How does this work?

Wrong, she can mask. Arika can also mask Lupo's bleed.

Example2: Nakhthorheb declares an action. As his text says "Minions with your corruption counters cannot block him" this text is an innerent part of the declaration so no minion can Mask any of his actions, no matter there are corruption coounters placed or not. How does this work?

See groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a60275275258febc

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: AaronC

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23 Jan 2014 12:08 - 23 Jan 2014 12:09 #58799 by Ankha
I have an additional question (for Floppy).

Vamp A bleeds. Vamp B attempts to block. Giotto decides to mask the action. This is legal, and vamp B must now burn a blood to attempt to block.
groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/mask$20$20giotto/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/GbuA7u3Z690/U6gtmNB4LDIJ
Now, the other way round:

Giotto bleeds, prey declines block, can another vampire mask the action? (Is Giotto's special considered to be "used"?)
Giotto bleeds, vamp B pays 1 blood to attempt to block, can another vamp A mask the action? (assuming the answer is "no", Giotto's special has been used).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 23 Jan 2014 12:09 by Ankha.

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24 Jan 2014 08:34 #58812 by Pascal Bertrand

I have an additional question (for Floppy).

Vamp A bleeds. Vamp B attempts to block. Giotto decides to mask the action. This is legal, and vamp B must now burn a blood to attempt to block.
groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/mask$20$20giotto/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/GbuA7u3Z690/U6gtmNB4LDIJ

Now that's a weird ruling.
It's weird because in one sentence LSJ states that you have to pay when you make the block attempt announcement, whereas in another sentence he states that if you have already declared a block attempt, and Giotto masks, you still have to pay.

The only way this makes sense is to consider that the block attempt is re-established whenever Mask is played.

Now, the other way round:

Giotto bleeds, prey declines block, can another vampire mask the action? (Is Giotto's special considered to be "used"?)

No, Giotto's ability is not used if noone attempts to block (same goes for +1 stealth bonus and for Toreador Grand Ball'd vampires - if noone attempts to block, they aren't "used").

Giotto bleeds, vamp B pays 1 blood to attempt to block, can another vamp A mask the action? (assuming the answer is "no", Giotto's special has been used).

No. Giotto's ability has been used.

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