Two questions regarding Mokole blood and Helicopter

Hi.

When playing last saturday, two specific plays got us wondering if they were correct:

A) Are the cards you put into Mokolé Blood usable during the action of equiping it? The specific card was a Truth and thousand lies.

B) A vampire eats an imbued with an helicopter. can he use it to untap in the same action?

Many thanks in advance.

A. Yes if the card is action modifier that is usable at the end of successful action (like superior Thruth of a Thousand Lies)

B. If the Helicopter is untapped then yes.

Nac wrote:

A) Are the cards you put into Mokolé Blood usable during the action of equiping it? The specific card was a Truth and thousand lies.

Answer you want: no in the general case. The card (Mokole Blood) isn't in play yet - it's in "limbo" as defined in the Complete Rules Reference . That is, not in play, but also not in the ash heap. You can't use its effect when it's not yet in play, any more than you can use the Polaris Coach's +1 stealth ability while equipping. But a-e makes the point about cards usable after you have it (e.g. after a successful action), which should be fine.


Pedantic answer: actually yes. But it would require cards that, so far as I can tell, don't exist, and would be on a transfer of equipment action, where the Mokole Blood was already in play. Imagine there was a Serpentis card that worked like superior Cloak. You could have Vampire A equip Mokole Blood and put that card on it. Vampire B (also yours) does an equip action to take the Blood off Vampire A. During that action, Vampire A still has the Blood so could technically play hypothetical Superior Serpentis Cloak. But I can't think of any way of actually doing that currently.

Nac wrote:

B) A vampire eats an imbued with an helicopter. can he use it to untap in the same action?

Yes, assuming it was already untapped. Although...

Pillowfacing isn't itself an equip action, and thus doesn't cause the Helicopter to tap. There are many similar ways of moving-but-not-equipping a card, like Alastor.

What I can't actually find is anyone officially confirming that you can use Helicopter on the Alastor action you got it on. Pascal - at a point when he isn't the official authority - says :

The link Pascal provides confirms that Helicopter doesn't tap, but doesn't actually say you can use it immediately. But LSJ comments on a different aspect of the post and doesn't correct Pascal, so it seems pretty firm that you can. (And, indeed, this is how many people use Alsator + Helicopter.)


Pillowfacing is similar to Alastor in that during the resolution of the action you get the Helicopter, and can then tap it after the resolution.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Nac wrote:

A) Are the cards you put into Mokolé Blood usable during the action of equiping it? The specific card was a Truth and thousand lies.

Unique equipment.
Search your library and/or ash heap for up to four cards that require Serpentis [ser] and place them on this card (face down). Shuffle afterward. You may look at the cards at any time. This Follower of Set may play a card from this equipment as if from your hand (requirements and cost apply as usual). When the last card is removed, burn this equipment.

Answer you want: no in the general case. The card (Mokole Blood) isn't in play yet - it's in "limbo" as defined in the Complete Rules Reference . That is, not in play, but also not in the ash heap. You can't use its effect when it's not yet in play, any more than you can use the Polaris Coach's +1 stealth ability while equipping. But a-e makes the point about cards usable after you have it (e.g. after a successful action), which should be fine.


Pedantic answer: actually yes. But it would require cards that, so far as I can tell, don't exist, and would be on a transfer of equipment action, where the Mokole Blood was already in play. Imagine there was a Serpentis card that worked like superior Cloak. You could have Vampire A equip Mokole Blood and put that card on it. Vampire B (also yours) does an equip action to take the Blood off Vampire A. During that action, Vampire A still has the Blood so could technically play hypothetical Superior Serpentis Cloak. But I can't think of any way of actually doing that currently.

In no case the answer to this question can be "no".
The answer is "yes", but needs some explanation.

Mokole Blood isn't in play until the equip Molole Blood action successfully resolves. At that point (only) do you search for cards to put on it.
Then, the only restriction is cardtext. You can put Truth of a Thousand Lies on Molole Blood, and use it to untap after the Mokole Blood equip action.
If you put, say, Form of the Serpent on it, you obviously can't use it because you are past the resolution, and therefore don't need stealth.


Shortly: It isn't in play, and thus doesn't have any cards on it, until the action is successful.

James's example of Serpentis Cloak the Gathering would work the way he describes.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Nac wrote:

B) A vampire eats an imbued with an helicopter. can he use it to untap in the same action?

Vehicle.
When a minion equips with the Helicopter, tap it. After resolving a successful action, this minion may tap the Helicopter to untap. A minion may have only one vehicle.

Yes, assuming it was already untapped. Although...

Pillowfacing isn't itself an equip action, and thus doesn't cause the Helicopter to tap. There are many similar ways of moving-but-not-equipping a card, like Alastor.

What I can't actually find is anyone officially confirming that you can use Helicopter on the Alastor action you got it on. Pascal - at a point when he isn't the official authority - says :

The Helicopter wasn't equipped, it was placed on the vampire. So it is
not tapped, and can be used to untap at the end of the Alastor action.
"Alastor Helicopter author:LSJ" :
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b621991b7a0a0ab3

The link Pascal provides confirms that Helicopter doesn't tap, but doesn't actually say you can use it immediately. But LSJ comments on a different aspect of the post and doesn't correct Pascal, so it seems pretty firm that you can. (And, indeed, this is how many people use Alsator + Helicopter.)


Pillowfacing is similar to Alastor in that during the resolution of the action you get the Helicopter, and can then tap it after the resolution.

You can untap the acting vampire with the Helicopter he just got from the Alastor action.

Many thanks.