Nar Shepta and Deep Song

Assamite A has Nar Shepta.

Vampire B use Deep Song SUP to enter combat with A.

No block.

Who is considered the acting minion ?

Nar SHepta

[Retainer] Retainer

[Assamite] Assamite

[1 Pool]


Unique Wraith with 1 life.
While this vampire is in combat, you get +2 hand size, and the opposing minion is considered the acting minion.

Deep Song

[Action] Action

[Animalism] Animalism


[ani] Bleed at +1 bleed.
[ANI] Frenzy. Enter combat with and tap a ready vampire controlled by another Methuselah. In that combat, that vampire is considered the acting minion.

My guess would be that this follows the template for
set range. If range is set in a combat, it cannot
be changed again by other set range effects.
Similarly, if a minion is set to be the acting minion,
this cannot be changed by other effects afterwards.
So Deep Song sets the "victim" to be the acting minion in the
resulting combat if the action is unblocked.
Then this cannot be reversed in combat by the retainer.

Just my 2 cents

Timo wrote:

Assamite A has Nar Shepta.

Vampire B use Deep Song SUP to enter combat with A.

No block.

Who is considered the acting minion ?

A (the minion with Nar-Shepta), for several reasons. You can consider it a ruling if you think it's fiat.

Amongst other reasons to consider: Olid Loa and burning the retainer during combat.

So a Samedi (S) with plays deep song SUP on an Assamite (A) with Nar Shepta.

S is considered acting.

So S has the opportunity to play as many before range he wants, and then he plays Olid Loa.

Once Olid Loa is resolved, A is now the acting minion correct ?

Now a question of timing :

To better understand let's imagine that the impulse is a physical token which have to be handed back to the acting whenever the reacting plays an effect. Does it is :

(A) I play an effect
Being the reacting, I hand you back the impulse

Or is it :
(B) Being the reacting, I hand you back the impulse to play an effect

It "could" be relevant in the case above.

In case (A), after playing Olid Loa, S immediately hand back the impulse and now A can play as many before he wants...

In case (B), after playing Olid Loa, S still has the impulse. But now, S is the reacting. So S COULD pass, ending the before range phase without A having the opportunity to play any effect

Timo wrote:

So a Samedi (S) with plays deep song SUP on an Assamite (A) with Nar Shepta.

S is considered acting.

Didn't Pascal just rule that A was considered the acting minion ?

That's why using letters is messy. I tried to be explicit with references to cards, but that wasn't enough...

Stick plays sup Deep Song on Qadir. Qadir has a Nar-Shepta.
There is no block.
In the resulting combat, Qadir is considered the acting minion.
If Nar-Shepta burns, Qadir remains considered the acting minion.

EDIT: The reason is precisely to avoid complications such as Timo's questions.