Can Mata Hari play Enforcer?

jamesatzephyr wrote:

cordovader wrote:

If I'm not wrong, cards played by Mata Hari see her as the vampire of the chosen clan till the end of the action.

Sort of, but not exactly. For the purposes of playing cards when faking requirements, there are four things you care about:

1) Playing the card (e.g. meeting the requirements, having blood if you're an ally faking being a vampire etc.)
2) Resolving the card (e.g. resolving the action and paying its cost, resolving a strike)
3) A 'lingering effect' provided by a card that hangs around for some period of time, but which is not based on the card being in play.
4) A 'card in play' effect, such as a card that says "The Abomination with this card has +3 strength."

Mata Hari, Ian Forestal, and pseudo-vampire allies are treated as whatever they're faking for the purposes 1, 2 and 3, for that card and that card only. They're whatever they really are for the purposes of 4.

Lingering effects can persist for (potentially) any amount of time, though typically they're quite short. Usually, if something is hanging around for a long time, the card goes in play - though not always!. There are a few that persist well beyond the end of the current action, which I discuss here: www.vekn.net/forum/6-rules-questions/61378-bima--aura-of-invencibility?limit=10&start=10 (with links to a ruling by LSJ on the matter).

cordovader wrote:

So, for example, if you play Raking Talons, she will do hand agg damage until the end of combat.

Yes, this works, because it's a lingering effect.

cordovader wrote:

And yes, Mata Hari can have and benefit from Art of Pain. She can play enforcer, but cannot benefit form it's effect.

Obligatory "Although she could if she Clan Impersonated to Osebo" or similar.

WAY better explanation than mine.

Of course, if Mata Hari clan impersonated to Osebo sure she could benefit from Enforcer.

What about the "Put this card on a ready Toreador Antitribu"?

It is also overruled by Mata Hari's ability?

Thank you,

Roberto wrote:

What about the "Put this card on a ready Toreador Antitribu"?

It is also overruled by Mata Hari's ability?

You can put Art of Pain on Mata Hari, yes, as already explained above.

When you play Art of Pain, Mata Hari counts as a Toreador Antitribu for the purposes of:

- playing the card
- resolving the card
- the lingering effect not dependent on the card being in play (there isn't one for Art of Pain)


So when you play the card, you need a ready Toreador Antitribu to meet the clan requirement of it. Mata Hari lets you do that. When you announce the target of the card, you have to put it on a ready Toreador Antitribu, and Mata Hari's ability lets her count as a Toreador Antitribu for that purpose. When you resolve the card(*), Mata Hari is treated by Art of Pain as a Toreador Antitribu.

Now the card is in play, Mata Hari is no longer treated by it as a Toreador Antitribu. But that doesn't matter, because - once in play - the card gives its benefit to "This vampire", not "This Toreador Antitribu".



(*) This is at the same time as playing it for a master card, but wouldn't be for, say, Visionquest which says: "Put this card on the acting Ahrimane."

Thanks to everyone for clearing this up for me