Descent into darkness and scarce vampires

Hi!
I'm not sure on this, maybe someone can clarify this for me please!

If i play descent into darkness on a scarce vampire, then bring out another scarce vampire from the same clan and next turn the one with descent returns to play, do i have to pay the scarce penalty?

Descent into Darkness
[Action] Action

[Obtenebration] Obtenebration

[1 Blood]

+1 stealth action.
[obt] Turn the acting vampire and any cards on him or her face down, out of play (breaking any temporary control effects). Put this card on him or her (in play). During your influence phase, move 2 blood to this face down vampire from the blood bank, and you can choose to burn this card to return the vampire to play, tapped.
[OBT] As above, but the vampire is untapped when he or she returns to play.

Thanks!

From rulebook:
Scarce: When methuselah moves a scarce vampire from her uncontrolled region to her ready region during her influence phase, she must burn 3 pool for every other vampire of the same clan already in play.

A Vampire under descent in not coming from uncontrolled region, thus scarce penalty is not paid. Other option to get around scarce penalty is to use anarch card undue influence at qui, and bring your vampire out during your minion phase.

(Hopefully someone can move this to the right forum...)

gameover wrote:

If i play descent into darkness on a scarce vampire, then bring out another scarce vampire from the same clan and next turn the one with descent returns to play, do i have to pay the scarce penalty?

Descent into Darkness moves the vampire out of play, but not to the uncontrolled region: [LSJ 20050220]

LSJ wrote:

>>If I play descent with, let's say Gratiano, is he placed in the
>>uncontrolled region?
> nope.

Correct. He is merely out of play, like a contested vampire is
merely out of play withou being in the uncontrolled region.

The Scarce penalty only applies when moving vampires out of the uncontrolled region:

vekn.net/rulebook/11-special-terms
So:

Turn 1: Scarce Vampire A plays Descent into Darkness (leaving play). You transfer out Scarce Vampire B. Scarce Vampire B does not see Scarce Vampire A as being in play, so you do not have to pay 3 pool for that.
Turn 2: You bring Scarce Vampire A back into play. Scarce Vampire A was not in the uncontrolled region, so the Scarce rule does not trigger.


Note for completeness: if you trigger Descent into Darkness to return Scarce Vampire A to play in Turn 1, it would come back into play before you influenced Scarce Vampire B out - and so Scarce Vampire B would then see it.

[RTR 2008-08-08]

RTR wrote:

Influence phase has two parts: the main part and the end part.

The main part is the "general" influence part, in which a Methuselah spends her
influence and plays most other influence-phase effects (effects that don't
specify the "end of the influence phase").

The end part is the "gain control" part, in which a Methuselah gains control of
the sufficiently-influenced minions in the uncontrolled region. Effects that are
applied "at the end of the influence phase" are played in this second part.

Note that some effects can bring a vampire out at other times. The timing given
in card text, not "does this effect bring a vampire out?", determines the
timing. For example:
-- Gather can bring out a vampire in the first part (the general part).
-- Tomb of Rameses III can bring the vampire out in the second part (end part).
-- Undue Influence can bring the vampire out in the minion phase.

Gather, like Descent, is a "during" the influence phase effect - not "at the end of". So it goes before flipping over vampires with enough blood on them.

Thanks a lot!