Rules questions
10 May 2018 13:29 #86737
by TwoRazorReign
Rules questions was created by TwoRazorReign
First, nice work to all involved with the new cards. They look great!
I have a few questions about new rules text and text on cards. First, the text on cards:
For Erlik, it says: “As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls.” Does “distribute” mean the same thing as “move,” only clarifying that any amount of the 5 blood can be moved among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls?
On Emerald Legionnaire, under the action/ally symbol, it says “Recruit Action.” I find it odd that it does not say “Recruit Ally Action.” If the idea of this text is to clarify what the symbols mean, then shouldn’t the word “Ally” be included, because the ally symbol is shown?
Last, the new rules text states, “This is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder.” I like the idea here that parenthetical text is used to clarify a limitation. But, I am puzzled by how this is worded.
First, I assume the word “reminder” is used to mean “reminder text.” The term “reminder text” is a Magic: The Gathering term, and is therefore jargon used among those involved with that game. If one does not play M:tG, or is new to collectible card games, they will not know what is meant by “reminder” in the rulebook. Thus, a new term requiring a definition is being added to the rulebook, but without a definition.
Second, “(limited)” is not a reminder, it is a key word. Key words have associated reminder text to clarify what the key word means, per the definition of reminder text here . So, if this really is a “reminder,” the text on the card should look something like “+1 bleed. Limited. (only one action modifier can be used to increase the bleed amount). (I am aware this is too wordy and not within the spirit of the new rule. Just illustrating my point that “reminder” is the wrong word to use).
Third, the subject in ““This is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder” does not appear to be the intended subject. For bleed modifiers, “this” refers to “A minion cannot use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action.” So this sentence is saying “A minion not being able to use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder.” Unless “reminder” in this sentence has a meaning used by the designers that I am unaware of (which would be the jargon issue outlined above), then this sentence does not make sense. It’s the player who is being reminded, not the concept of one bleed modifier being used who is being reminded.
It’s probably best to not introduce the term “reminder” into VTES at all. Instead, perhaps the new text in the rulebook can say something like “This is indicated on the card by the word ‘(limited)’”?
I have a few questions about new rules text and text on cards. First, the text on cards:
For Erlik, it says: “As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls.” Does “distribute” mean the same thing as “move,” only clarifying that any amount of the 5 blood can be moved among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls?
On Emerald Legionnaire, under the action/ally symbol, it says “Recruit Action.” I find it odd that it does not say “Recruit Ally Action.” If the idea of this text is to clarify what the symbols mean, then shouldn’t the word “Ally” be included, because the ally symbol is shown?
Last, the new rules text states, “This is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder.” I like the idea here that parenthetical text is used to clarify a limitation. But, I am puzzled by how this is worded.
First, I assume the word “reminder” is used to mean “reminder text.” The term “reminder text” is a Magic: The Gathering term, and is therefore jargon used among those involved with that game. If one does not play M:tG, or is new to collectible card games, they will not know what is meant by “reminder” in the rulebook. Thus, a new term requiring a definition is being added to the rulebook, but without a definition.
Second, “(limited)” is not a reminder, it is a key word. Key words have associated reminder text to clarify what the key word means, per the definition of reminder text here . So, if this really is a “reminder,” the text on the card should look something like “+1 bleed. Limited. (only one action modifier can be used to increase the bleed amount). (I am aware this is too wordy and not within the spirit of the new rule. Just illustrating my point that “reminder” is the wrong word to use).
Third, the subject in ““This is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder” does not appear to be the intended subject. For bleed modifiers, “this” refers to “A minion cannot use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action.” So this sentence is saying “A minion not being able to use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder.” Unless “reminder” in this sentence has a meaning used by the designers that I am unaware of (which would be the jargon issue outlined above), then this sentence does not make sense. It’s the player who is being reminded, not the concept of one bleed modifier being used who is being reminded.
It’s probably best to not introduce the term “reminder” into VTES at all. Instead, perhaps the new text in the rulebook can say something like “This is indicated on the card by the word ‘(limited)’”?
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10 May 2018 17:58 #86740
by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Rules questions
This is the same wording used by Great Symposium. Yes, the 5 blood can go to one uncontrolled vampire or split evenly or evenly amongst many vampires.For Erlik, it says: “As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls.” Does “distribute” mean the same thing as “move,” only clarifying that any amount of the 5 blood can be moved among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls?
Only allies can be recruited, the extra wording is redundant.On Emerald Legionnaire, under the action/ally symbol, it says “Recruit Action.” I find it odd that it does not say “Recruit Ally Action.” If the idea of this text is to clarify what the symbols mean, then shouldn’t the word “Ally” be included, because the ally symbol is shown?
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10 May 2018 19:11 #86741
by Ankha
"any amount of the 5 blood" => "up to 5 blood"
"among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls" => distribute.
See also Dmitra.
Replied by Ankha on topic Rules questions
Correct. It enforces the notion that the blood can be distributed among vampires.For Erlik, it says: “As Erlik enters play, you can distribute up to 5 blood from him to any of your uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls.” Does “distribute” mean the same thing as “move,” only clarifying that any amount of the 5 blood can be moved among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls?
"any amount of the 5 blood" => "up to 5 blood"
"among any amount of uncontrolled Harbingers of Skulls" => distribute.
See also Dmitra.
The text is there to help people remembering what the symbols mean. "Recruit action" is likely to be enough to find the reference in the rulebook. Adding the word "ally" has its pros and cons.On Emerald Legionnaire, under the action/ally symbol, it says “Recruit Action.” I find it odd that it does not say “Recruit Ally Action.” If the idea of this text is to clarify what the symbols mean, then shouldn’t the word “Ally” be included, because the ally symbol is shown?
No, it means "something that helps someone remember". (Cambridge)First, I assume the word “reminder” is used to mean “reminder text.”
Moot.The term “reminder text” is a Magic: The Gathering term, and is therefore jargon used among those involved with that game. If one does not play M:tG, or is new to collectible card games, they will not know what is meant by “reminder” in the rulebook. Thus, a new term requiring a definition is being added to the rulebook, but without a definition.
It's not a keyword. Parentheses are now exclusively used to indicate that the text is optional, and usually used to remind players of the rules.Second, “(limited)” is not a reminder, it is a key word. Key words have associated reminder text to clarify what the key word means, per the definition of reminder text here . So, if this really is a “reminder,” the text on the card should look something like “+1 bleed. Limited. (only one action modifier can be used to increase the bleed amount). (I am aware this is too wordy and not within the spirit of the new rule. Just illustrating my point that “reminder” is the wrong word to use).
Correct, this is a mistake. It should read something like "Players are reminded of this limitation by the text "(limited)."Third, the subject in ““This is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder” does not appear to be the intended subject. For bleed modifiers, “this” refers to “A minion cannot use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action.” So this sentence is saying “A minion not being able to use more than one action modifier card to increase a bleed during a bleed action is reminded by the "(limited)" reminder.”
Unless “reminder” in this sentence has a meaning used by the designers that I am unaware of (which would be the jargon issue outlined above), then this sentence does not make sense. It’s the player who is being reminded, not the concept of one bleed modifier being used who is being reminded.
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11 May 2018 01:46 #86752
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Rules questions
I'm assuming the lives of new players will be easier with the (limited) thing, since Leverage and Command the Beast are the exceptions, not the rule.
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11 May 2018 07:54 #86765
by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Rules questions
Also (limited) saves up space for additional text...
Finnish
Politics!

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11 May 2018 11:28 - 11 May 2018 11:29 #86771
by TwoRazorReign
So why was the extra wording added? If it's redundant, it's not necessary to include it. Surely it's serving some purpose.
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Rules questions
Only allies can be recruited, the extra wording is redundant.On Emerald Legionnaire, under the action/ally symbol, it says “Recruit Action.” I find it odd that it does not say “Recruit Ally Action.” If the idea of this text is to clarify what the symbols mean, then shouldn’t the word “Ally” be included, because the ally symbol is shown?
So why was the extra wording added? If it's redundant, it's not necessary to include it. Surely it's serving some purpose.
Last edit: 11 May 2018 11:29 by TwoRazorReign.
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