Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
26 Nov 2019 16:16 #97986
by Kushiel
Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played" was created by Kushiel
We had a situation come up in play last night and there was some confusion about how to resolve it.
In combat, Vampire A plays Pursuit to gain an additional strike. Vampire B plays Death Seeker to cancel Pursuit as it's played. Can Vampire A play another card to gain an additional strike?
We decided that the "limited" keyword meant that vampire A couldn't play another card. However, checking this morning to see if I could find a ruling on this, I found a line in the V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata doc on the VEKN France site indicating that they could play another card to gain additional strikes...but that document appears to be from 2004, well before the "limited" keyword was introduced to the game.
Name: Pursuit
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Maneuver.
[CEL] Additional strike {(limited)}.
Name: Death Seeker
Cardtype: Combat
Clan: Salubri antitribu
Cost: 1 blood
A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round.
Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.
In combat, Vampire A plays Pursuit to gain an additional strike. Vampire B plays Death Seeker to cancel Pursuit as it's played. Can Vampire A play another card to gain an additional strike?
We decided that the "limited" keyword meant that vampire A couldn't play another card. However, checking this morning to see if I could find a ruling on this, I found a line in the V:TES Official Clarifications, Rulings, and Errata doc on the VEKN France site indicating that they could play another card to gain additional strikes...but that document appears to be from 2004, well before the "limited" keyword was introduced to the game.
Name: Pursuit
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Maneuver.
[CEL] Additional strike {(limited)}.
Name: Death Seeker
Cardtype: Combat
Clan: Salubri antitribu
Cost: 1 blood
A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round.
Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.
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26 Nov 2019 17:58 - 26 Nov 2019 18:01 #97987
by Kraus
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Replied by Kraus on topic Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
Cancelling a card effectively results a card by that specific name being played with a 'blank' effect. In Action modifiers
this is important since a minion may not play multiple
or
cards of the same name during the same action. That does not apply to combat
cards however.
In this case a 'blank' Pursuit was played with no effect. The minion did not gain any Additional Strikes, thus they could play another to actually gain the benefits of the cards.
This is why a minion might not replay a cancelled Conditioning, but might attempt to increase the Bleed amount with Threats (the bleed amount was not factually increased).
How _Limited_ works was last discussed in the October Newsletter:
www.vekn.net/2-uncategorised/465-vampire-elder-kindred-network-newsletter-october-2019




In this case a 'blank' Pursuit was played with no effect. The minion did not gain any Additional Strikes, thus they could play another to actually gain the benefits of the cards.
This is why a minion might not replay a cancelled Conditioning, but might attempt to increase the Bleed amount with Threats (the bleed amount was not factually increased).
How _Limited_ works was last discussed in the October Newsletter:
www.vekn.net/2-uncategorised/465-vampire-elder-kindred-network-newsletter-october-2019
"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise
garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Last edit: 26 Nov 2019 18:01 by Kraus.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kushiel
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26 Nov 2019 20:14 #97990
by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
Yeah, that makes sense.
In retrospect, I suspect we were probably confused around cards which specifically state that there can only be one copy played per round (like Immortal Grapple), which still pertains when they're cancelled due to the text on the second copy...
In retrospect, I suspect we were probably confused around cards which specifically state that there can only be one copy played per round (like Immortal Grapple), which still pertains when they're cancelled due to the text on the second copy...
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27 Nov 2019 16:50 #98003
by Bloodartist
There are some important exceptions however, namely the combat cards that restrict themselves. For example you can only play one immortal grapple per round. Canceling a grapple means opponent cannot play another that round and you can combat end or whatever in peace.
(offtopic)
Also another important rule is that action cards have to reach resolution in order to count as "played" and trigger the no-repeat-actions rule. Ie. resolve either successfully or unsuccessfully (succesful block means the action resolved unsuccessfully) This means that if you cancel an action card, they can play same action card again and attempt that same action again, no matter what it was. Action cards are unique in this sense.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
Cancelling a card effectively results a card by that specific name being played with a 'blank' effect. In Action modifiers
this is important since a minion may not play multiple
or
cards of the same name during the same action. That does not apply to combat
cards however.
There are some important exceptions however, namely the combat cards that restrict themselves. For example you can only play one immortal grapple per round. Canceling a grapple means opponent cannot play another that round and you can combat end or whatever in peace.
(offtopic)
Also another important rule is that action cards have to reach resolution in order to count as "played" and trigger the no-repeat-actions rule. Ie. resolve either successfully or unsuccessfully (succesful block means the action resolved unsuccessfully) This means that if you cancel an action card, they can play same action card again and attempt that same action again, no matter what it was. Action cards are unique in this sense.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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28 Nov 2019 10:23 #98015
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
Indeed, and that's because of the cardtext of the second copy, not the one that was cancelled.
Cancelling a card effectively results a card by that specific name being played with a 'blank' effect. In Action modifiers
this is important since a minion may not play multiple
or
cards of the same name during the same action. That does not apply to combat
cards however.
There are some important exceptions however, namely the combat cards that restrict themselves. For example you can only play one immortal grapple per round. Canceling a grapple means opponent cannot play another that round and you can combat end or whatever in peace.
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28 Nov 2019 12:23 #98020
by Tendoncutter
Replied by Tendoncutter on topic Additional Strikes and "Cancel as Played"
(offtopic)
Also another important rule is that action cards have to reach resolution in order to count as "played" and trigger the no-repeat-actions rule. Ie. resolve either successfully or unsuccessfully (succesful block means the action resolved unsuccessfully) This means that if you cancel an action card, they can play same action card again and attempt that same action again, no matter what it was. Action cards are unique in this sense.
Which kinda sucks if you try to stay alive against bleed decks through, among other things, Superior Esprit de Corps -_-
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