Scourge of the Enochians timing

Ankha wrote:

beslin wrote:

3. whu him cannot use coven now,whu pas the impulse?

You should try using a translator, your questions are hard to understand.
Who are you talking about? E? Another player?
Also, I read: "3. player E has the impulse and can't pass" but you are asking "whu pas the impulse?" so I'm unsure what you're asking.

beslin wrote:

5. i beleive player E can chose to use coven in his predator turn because him maybe cannot decide what vampir need blood?

I don't understand the question, sorry.

beslin wrote:

A) what if controler coven dont have ready minion,can him look it only to not give gift his predator 2 blood?

You cannot use the Coven if you don't have a ready vampire.

I mean on point 3. from Pascal answer who say:
> player E has the impulse and can't pass ( because she has to take the Coven). Let's say she uses the impulse to take the Coven (she could draw from Barrens, ...)<
So whu E only take Coven,whu cannot use before impulse pass?

Point 5 from Pascal answer:
> player E uses the Coven <
I ask player E probably can use Coven to gain 2 blood later,example is his predator(D) turn?

and have bonus question : player with Coven and Scourge have vampires in torpor,Dragonbound is in play,when player resolve Dragonbound need to be ousted. does Coven and Scourge is removed with him,or him can discard card,pass impulse,his predator take Coven and Scourge,and after impulse back him be ousted by Dragonbound?

Dragonbound
Gehenna. Do not replace as long as this card is in play.

During each Methuselah's discard phase, that Methuselah burns 1 pool for each vampire in torpor they control.

Scourge of the Enochians

During your discard phase, you can burn a vampire with capacity 2 or less, and your predator takes control of this card (even if you do not burn a vampire).

beslin wrote:

I mean on point 3. from Pascal answer who say:
> player E has the impulse and can't pass ( because she has to take the Coven). Let's say she uses the impulse to take the Coven (she could draw from Barrens, ...)<
So whu E only take Coven,whu cannot use before impulse pass?

Standard sequencing rules.

Whenever any player does anything that isn't "pass", the impulse goes back to the acting player.

Forget Coven. A simple example that occurs all the time is "before range is determined" cards in combat.

Two of us in combat, and we'll ignore the other three players.

The non-acting player(s) cannot string multiple cards or effects together in the same timing phase, without the impulse going back to the acting player each time.

Rulebook, wrote:

Note that if any Methuselah uses a card or effect, the acting Methuselah again gets the opportunity to play the next effect.

Often in practice, the acting player won't have much to do and the non-acting player will throw down several cards. Or similar things. But if the acting player does want to intervene, they can - the impulse goes back to them each time.

beslin wrote:

and have bonus question : player with Coven and Scourge have vampires in torpor,Dragonbound is in play,when player resolve Dragonbound need to be ousted. does Coven and Scourge is removed with him,or him can discard card,pass impulse,his predator take Coven and Scourge,and after impulse back him be ousted by Dragonbound?

Dragonbound
Gehenna. Do not replace as long as this card is in play.

During each Methuselah's discard phase, that Methuselah burns 1 pool for each vampire in torpor they control.

Scourge of the Enochians

During your discard phase, you can burn a vampire with capacity 2 or less, and your predator takes control of this card (even if you do not burn a vampire).

If I am correct, the acting player can't pass the impulse before having resolved the effect of dragonbound.

This means that his predator can't have the impulse to take control of the coven.

BUT, if I read the cards correctly, Scourge is handle differently because the acting player can use it burning (or not) a vampire, giving the impulse to his predator and making him take control of the Scourge and then triggering the dragonbound and killing him after having "given" the scourge.

Is it correct ?

Name: The Coven
[SW:R, Anarchs:PAG, KoT:PM, 25th:1]
Cardtype: Master
Unique. Trifle.
Put this card in play. Lock to add 2 blood to a ready vampire you control. During your discard phase, your predator takes control of The Coven.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

Timo wrote:

BUT, if I read the cards correctly, Scourge is handle differently because the acting player can use it burning (or not) a vampire, giving the impulse to his predator and making him take control of the Scourge and then triggering the dragonbound and killing him after having "given" the scourge.

Is it correct ?

When the acting player sequences in handling Scourge of the Enochians, they burn the vampire (or not) and Scourge moves to their predator. That doesn't give the impulse to their predator, it just means a card has moved. Their predator doesn't, at that point, get the opportunity to use a card or play an effect.

The acting player retains the impulse, because they always have the opportunity to use the next card or effect with the same timing. They can then trigger Dragonbound (and die, assuming they have little enough pool).

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Timo wrote:

BUT, if I read the cards correctly, Scourge is handle differently because the acting player can use it burning (or not) a vampire, giving the impulse to his predator and making him take control of the Scourge and then triggering the dragonbound and killing him after having "given" the scourge.

Is it correct ?

When the acting player sequences in handling Scourge of the Enochians, they burn the vampire (or not) and Scourge moves to their predator. That doesn't give the impulse to their predator, it just means a card has moved. Their predator doesn't, at that point, get the opportunity to use a card or play an effect.

The acting player retains the impulse, because they always have the opportunity to use the next card or effect with the same timing. They can then trigger Dragonbound (and die, assuming they have little enough pool).

What I meant by "giving the impulse" is that the text of scourge says that "your predator takes control of this card" so I thought that it was an action from the predator.

Timo wrote:

What I meant by "giving the impulse" is that the text of scourge says that "your predator takes control of this card" so I thought that it was an action from the predator.

Not in any meaningful sense. The predator isn't being given an effect to declare. You're just resolving the whole effect of using Scourge, which happens to include control of the card changing.

I imagine the "Your predator takes..." writing was a) less ambiguous than something like "Give this to..." (no mention of control), b) less annoying than something like "Control of this card passes to...", and c) fits in more easily with earlier templating, like Uriah Winter and Disputed Territory (from the V:TES wording of Disputed). And I can pretty much guarantee that during the printing of Jyhad and the updating for the V:TES set, no-one was thinking about the finer nuances of the sequencing rules.