file When does NRA apply/not apply

15 Oct 2021 12:11 - 15 Oct 2021 12:14 #103563 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
As a rule of thumb, cards that bring an action to a "bad" end use:
- "fail" before resolution
- "end" after resolution, when blocked

There are a few exceptions (Kiss of Ra...) that will be updated on reprint.

An action that fails is considered to have resolved unsuccessfully, as if it had been blocked, except there is no blocker.
An action that ends well... ends. If it has already been blocked by cardtext (which should be 99% of the cases, and 100% of the cases in the future), it is unsuccessful.

a)
Car bomb

"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

This is the old templating. The card is played before resolution ("Only usable before any block attempts are made.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This is equivalent to "the action fails".
Since the action fails, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.

b)
secret passage

"the action fails" does the word "fail" imply that the action resolced unsucesfull, dsepite noit reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

See definition above of "fail" => it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.

c)
kiss of ra

"the action ends" in the case tthat a) means that the action is subjecrted by NRA, is the paranthesis only a remainder, meaning Kiss of ra also ends (unsucesfully), or would this card need a rewording, to be in line with earlier rulings?

The action has not been blocked, and is ended, which would be equivalent to "canceled" (see d) below). So it has not reached resolution. It does not count against the NRA (if you manage to unlock the minion).
Note that this is probably a bad migration since the action that "blocked" by the Kiss of Ra.
On future reprint, the action will "fail".

d)
Tangle Atropos Hand

"Cancel the action" Action did not reach resolution, and did not end. Does NRA apply?

"Cancel" is different from "fail(ure)". The action has not reached resolution. It does not count against the NRA.

e)
Champion

"The action fails and the acting monster enters combat with this imbued instead." In case that in b) NRA does not apply, does it apply here,sicne there is a combat, or is this combat unrelated to the action resolution?


Whether there is a combat is unrelated. The important part is that "the action fails", meaning it has reached resolution, and counts against the NRA.

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Last edit: 15 Oct 2021 12:14 by Ankha.
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15 Oct 2021 15:54 #103567 by self biased

As a rule of thumb, cards that bring an action to a "bad" end use:
- "fail" before resolution
- "end" after resolution, when blocked

There are a few exceptions (Kiss of Ra...) that will be updated on reprint.

An action that fails is considered to have resolved unsuccessfully, as if it had been blocked, except there is no blocker.
An action that ends well... ends. If it has already been blocked by cardtext (which should be 99% of the cases, and 100% of the cases in the future), it is unsuccessful.

a)
Car bomb

"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

This is the old templating. The card is played before resolution ("Only usable before any block attempts are made.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This is equivalent to "the action fails".
Since the action fails, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.

b)
secret passage

"the action fails" does the word "fail" imply that the action resolced unsucesfull, dsepite noit reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

See definition above of "fail" => it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.

c)
kiss of ra

"the action ends" in the case tthat a) means that the action is subjecrted by NRA, is the paranthesis only a remainder, meaning Kiss of ra also ends (unsucesfully), or would this card need a rewording, to be in line with earlier rulings?

The action has not been blocked, and is ended, which would be equivalent to "canceled" (see d) below). So it has not reached resolution. It does not count against the NRA (if you manage to unlock the minion).
Note that this is probably a bad migration since the action that "blocked" by the Kiss of Ra.
On future reprint, the action will "fail".

d)
Tangle Atropos Hand

"Cancel the action" Action did not reach resolution, and did not end. Does NRA apply?

"Cancel" is different from "fail(ure)". The action has not reached resolution. It does not count against the NRA.

e)
Champion

"The action fails and the acting monster enters combat with this imbued instead." In case that in b) NRA does not apply, does it apply here,sicne there is a combat, or is this combat unrelated to the action resolution?


Whether there is a combat is unrelated. The important part is that "the action fails", meaning it has reached resolution, and counts against the NRA.


it is much much much much simpler if the NRA rule is explained in the rulebook in terms of whether or not the action has resolved successfully (or unsuccessfully) NRA activates, or if it has been cancelled, where NRA does not activate.

I've beaten this drum pretty hard in the past and the fact that you've explained it here in terms of resolution for clarity tells me that clarity should probably be in the rulebook.
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16 Oct 2021 03:27 #103569 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic When does NRA apply/not apply

it is much much much much simpler if the NRA rule is explained in the rulebook in terms of whether or not the action has resolved successfully (or unsuccessfully) NRA activates, or if it has been cancelled, where NRA does not activate.

I've beaten this drum pretty hard in the past and the fact that you've explained it here in terms of resolution for clarity tells me that clarity should probably be in the rulebook.



Agree completely.

c)
kiss of ra

"the action ends" in the case tthat a) means that the action is subjecrted by NRA, is the paranthesis only a remainder, meaning Kiss of ra also ends (unsucesfully), or would this card need a rewording, to be in line with earlier rulings?

The action has not been blocked, and is ended, which would be equivalent to "canceled" (see d) below). So it has not reached resolution. It does not count against the NRA (if you manage to unlock the minion).
Note that this is probably a bad migration since the action that "blocked" by the Kiss of Ra.
On future reprint, the action will "fail".



Am I understanding it correctly that you are saying that a future reprint will be making the action modified by Kiss of Ra count against the NRA as the action will "fail"?

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16 Oct 2021 08:25 #103572 by Lönkka
I agree that such an important thing should be in the rulebook.

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18 Jan 2022 09:07 #104504 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic When does NRA apply/not apply

a)
Car bomb

"the action ends (unsecesfully)" does the paranthesis state that the action resolved unsucesfully, despite not reaching resolution, therefore being subjected to NRA?

This is the old templating. The card is played before resolution ("Only usable before any block attempts are made.") and makes the action "ends (unsuccessfully)".
This is equivalent to "the action fails".
Since the action fails, it has reached resolution and counts against the NRA.


Ankha can you please confirm if Zephyr can be played to unlock after Car Bomb "ends (unsuccessfully)" aka "fails" the action (i.e. can modifiers/ further reactions be played after an action "ends (unsuccessfully)/fails")???

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18 Jan 2022 10:44 - 18 Jan 2022 10:59 #104506 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic When does NRA apply/not apply
Please assume that Car Bomb says:

Requires a ready anarch.
Only usable before any block attempts are made. Lock this reacting minion. If the acting minion has a vehicle, the action {fails}, the vehicle is burned, and the acting minion takes 2 damage (not preventable). Otherwise, the action gets -1 stealth.

This is an errata to make the cards consistent (before the action is blocked => fails, once the action is blocked => ends).
So the action is subject to NRA and you can play Zephyr.

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Last edit: 18 Jan 2022 10:59 by Ankha.
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