file Neferu + Gustav Breind. + Corruption counter

11 Jan 2022 14:33 #104440 by thiago_sousa
Hi everyone!!
Last 4fun happened the following situation:
Player A controls Neferu and calls a Free State Rant. Player B controls Gustav Breindestein - untapped - and he vote against the terms. Player A then placed Velvet tongue on him and used her ability. Player B then tapped Gustav and used his ability.
Here comes the doubt:
The 5 votes from Gustav's ability are his votes, therefore, Neferu's votes as well since he has a corruption counter OR those votes belongs to the Methuselah, so they can't be affected by Neferu's ability?
We proceded this way: most of the players believed that those 5 votes belongs to the Methuselah and not the vampiro, due Gustav's text.
So, what's the answer here guys?!
My thanks in advance.

Neferu:
Independent: Neferu has 2 votes (titled). Once each referendum, she may burn a blood to change the votes and ballots of a vampire with any of your corruption counters to votes and ballots of your choice.

Velvet tongue (act mod text):
Only usable during the polling step of a political action. Put 1 corruption counter on a minion casting votes or ballots in this referendum.

Gustav:
Camarilla Prince of Berlin: Gustav can lock during the polling step of any referendum to get +5 votes. +1 bleed.

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11 Jan 2022 15:14 - 11 Jan 2022 15:19 #104441 by inm8

Hi everyone!!
Last 4fun happened the following situation:
Player A controls Neferu and calls a Free State Rant. Player B controls Gustav Breindestein - untapped - and he vote against the terms. Player A then placed Velvet tongue on him and used her ability. Player B then tapped Gustav and used his ability.
Here comes the doubt:
The 5 votes from Gustav's ability are his votes, therefore, Neferu's votes as well since he has a corruption counter OR those votes belongs to the Methuselah, so they can't be affected by Neferu's ability?
We proceded this way: most of the players believed that those 5 votes belongs to the Methuselah and not the vampiro, due Gustav's text.
So, what's the answer here guys?!
My thanks in advance.


The votes are Gustav´s because of card text "Gustav can lock during the polling step of any referendum to get +5 votes." i.e. Gustav locks to get +5 votes resulting in him having 7 votes that have to all be cast either for or against. Activating his special ability after already having cast the title-related votes only adds to those increasing the nr of votes from 2 to 7.

As Neferu played Velvet Tongue enabling Player A to change Gustav´s 2 votes to be of his/her choice the later triggering of Gustav´s special would add 5 more votes that have to align with the already cast 2 votes (that have potentially been changed)

Rulebook
Each vote or ballot cast is cast either “for” or “against” the referendum, and a Methuselah may cast some of their votes and ballots in favour and some against, as they choose, with the restriction that all of the votes and ballots from any given vampire or other source must be cast in agreement as a group.

Last edit: 11 Jan 2022 15:19 by inm8.
The following user(s) said Thank You: thiago_sousa

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11 Jan 2022 15:53 #104442 by Ankha

Hi everyone!!
Last 4fun happened the following situation:
Player A controls Neferu and calls a Free State Rant. Player B controls Gustav Breindestein - untapped - and he vote against the terms. Player A then placed Velvet tongue on him and used her ability. Player B then tapped Gustav and used his ability.
Here comes the doubt:
The 5 votes from Gustav's ability are his votes, therefore, Neferu's votes as well since he has a corruption counter OR those votes belongs to the Methuselah, so they can't be affected by Neferu's ability?
We proceded this way: most of the players believed that those 5 votes belongs to the Methuselah and not the vampiro, due Gustav's text.
So, what's the answer here guys?!
My thanks in advance.


The votes are Gustav´s because of card text "Gustav can lock during the polling step of any referendum to get +5 votes." i.e. Gustav locks to get +5 votes resulting in him having 7 votes that have to all be cast either for or against. Activating his special ability after already having cast the title-related votes only adds to those increasing the nr of votes from 2 to 7.

As Neferu played Velvet Tongue enabling Player A to change Gustav´s 2 votes to be of his/her choice the later triggering of Gustav´s special would add 5 more votes that have to align with the already cast 2 votes (that have potentially been changed)

Rulebook
Each vote or ballot cast is cast either “for” or “against” the referendum, and a Methuselah may cast some of their votes and ballots in favour and some against, as they choose, with the restriction that all of the votes and ballots from any given vampire or other source must be cast in agreement as a group.


Correct. If Gustav's ability was meant to give the Methuselah the votes, it would say something like: "You can lock Gustav during the polling step of any referendum to get +5 votes." or "Gustav can lock during the polling step of any referendum to give you +5 votes.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rémi, thiago_sousa, beslin igor

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