file Burn counter to gain control of/steal a minion

20 Jan 2022 15:14 - 22 Jan 2022 09:16 #104535 by inm8
There have been a few discussions around the workings of the different cards that have "burn counters to gain control of/steal a minion" (from here-on referred to as the "ability").

1) Is the "ability" of :SER: Contagion tied to the strike it provides (i.e. the strike must be used and be effective "close range" to be able to use the "ability" and cannot be used if the opposing minion dodges or S:CE)?

My conclusion is that it is tied to the strike. Looking for explicit confirmation as it isn't provided in earlier rulings.
[LSJ 20040130]
[ANK 20200909]

2) Can the "ability" of :SER: Contagion be used if the opposing minion has been sent to torpor as part of the strike resolution?

My conclusion is that it can be used as there is no mention of the minion needing to be ready/not wounded.

3) Can the below cards' "ability" be used even though the action is blocked and goes through normal block resolution?

Corruption, :ser: Reformation and :SER: Revelation of Ecstasy

My conclusion is that the "ability" cannot be used as the card is burned when the action is blocked and therefore is tied to the success of the action (i.e. the action not being blocked)
same as Cave of Apples which explicitly has it in its text but the reason for that is that it is a card in play providing an action and therefore doesn´t burn if blocked.

4) Can the "ability" while having Form of Corruption in play only be used during one´s master phase immediately after (since one´s last turn) when and if one´s prey gets the Edge anew (i.e. gets the Edge from someone else or while it was uncontrolled)?

My conclusion is that it is an "ability" provided by a card in play that one can trigger to use independently/separately from the conditioned ability that allows one to add counters to it and thereby the "ability" can be used at any time during one´s master phase regardless of who has the Edge and when they got it.

5) When playing :SER: Revelation of Despair or :SER: Venenation and the "ability" is used to steal the opposing minion does it:
a) immediately end the action or can further modifiers and reactions be played?
b) in the case of RoD lock the minion using it after taking control of the opposing minion?
c) in the case of Venenation lock the blocking minion being stolen after taking control of him/her?

My conclusion for
a) is that it does not end the action because it doesn´t explicitly says so and the player now controlling both of the minions is free to play further modifiers or reactions with both the minions.
b & c) is that based on the ruling [LSJ 20010803] the minion playing RoD and the minion being stolen by Venenation is locked because the process still moves forward to block resolution which locks the blocking minion and the combat is prevented since the combatants now share the same controller.


Cave of Apples


Contagion


Corruption


Form of Corruption


Reformation


Revelation of Despair


Revelation of Ecstasy


Venenation
Last edit: 22 Jan 2022 09:16 by inm8.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
27 Jan 2022 08:25 - 27 Jan 2022 08:27 #104588 by Ankha

There have been a few discussions around the workings of the different cards that have "burn counters to gain control of/steal a minion" (from here-on referred to as the "ability").

1) Is the "ability" of :SER: Contagion tied to the strike it provides (i.e. the strike must be used and be effective "close range" to be able to use the "ability" and cannot be used if the opposing minion dodges or S:CE)?

Yes, it is tied to the strike resolution. groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/wvuR79dNCDU/m/z4C2L5NCgg8J

2) Can the "ability" of :SER: Contagion be used if the opposing minion has been sent to torpor as part of the strike resolution?

Yes, nothing prevents it.

3) Can the below cards' "ability" be used even though the action is blocked and goes through normal block resolution?

No, it's part of the successful resolution of the action.

4) Can the "ability" while having Form of Corruption in play only be used during one´s master phase immediately after (since one´s last turn) when and if one´s prey gets the Edge anew (i.e. gets the Edge from someone else or while it was uncontrolled)?

Burning the Form of Corruption during your master phase is not related to adding counters on it.
For instance, you can burn the Form of Corruption during your master phase even if it has no counter on it to steal a vampire with no blood.

5) When playing :SER: Revelation of Despair or :SER: Venenation and the "ability" is used to steal the opposing minion does it:
a) immediately end the action or can further modifiers and reactions be played?

No, the action does not end.

b) in the case of RoD lock the minion using it after taking control of the opposing minion?

Since the minion blocked, it is locked as part of the block resolution (stealing the other minion does not cancel the block resolution). There should also be a combat, but since minions you control cannot enter combat with each other, that part of the block resolution does not take place.
See also groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/s1lJEsLMf-8/m/ruaF1kIjHI0J that is still valid.

c) in the case of Venenation lock the blocking minion being stolen after taking control of him/her?

As b)

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 27 Jan 2022 08:27 by Ankha.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.080 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum