file Rigor Mortis and Aid from bats (and other Manuver + strike cards)

10 Jan 2023 19:19 - 10 Jan 2023 19:57 #107175 by Hobbesgoblin
Does canceling a Maneuver from a card like aid form bats cancel the entire card, or is only the maneuver canceled, and the strike still locked on?

There seem to be two possibly conflicting rulings on this:

LSJ20050228 suggests that only the maneuver is canceled and the strike is still locked in, but technically only is about rigor mortis vs magnum and co.

RTR20040501 says if a strike is canceled, the entire strike card (if any) is cancelled, including all other (simultaneous or future) effects.
This is of course not about maneuver cancelling directly, but about strike cancelling cancelling a future maneuver or press.

In general, in the discord we felt that these rulings are possibly in conflict, and would like a resolution/update/new ruling about this.

Aid From Bats

Rigor Mortis
Last edit: 10 Jan 2023 19:57 by Hobbesgoblin.

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11 Jan 2023 13:39 - 11 Jan 2023 13:41 #107178 by KoRneeshon
AFAIK, with Rigor Mortis on THA, you simply cancel a maneuver, no matter the source - it can come from .44 Magnums, for example. So in your example, you just cancel one of the effects of the strike, it doesn't interfere with Aid from Bats in any other way.

If you cancel (e.g. with Primal Insticts) the whole strike, on the other hand, all of its effects are cancelled. Furthermore, if you used AfB to maneuver and then cancel your AfB with PI, you cannot choose another strike, as you are committed to use AfB's strike - as explained in RTR20040501.
Last edit: 11 Jan 2023 13:41 by KoRneeshon.

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11 Jan 2023 13:52 #107179 by Ankha

Does canceling a Maneuver from a card like aid form bats cancel the entire card, or is only the maneuver canceled, and the strike still locked on?

The latter.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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11 Jan 2023 17:45 #107180 by kschaefer
Why is this logically different than canceling a strike?

If the strike is canceled, the rest of the effect is also canceled. [RTR 20040501]


Why does canceling a maneuver that is attached to other (future) things, not also cancel those things?

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11 Jan 2023 18:47 #107181 by Ankha

Why is this logically different than canceling a strike?

If the strike is canceled, the rest of the effect is also canceled. [RTR 20040501]


Why does canceling a maneuver that is attached to other (future) things, not also cancel those things?


Because you're using a maneuver provided by a strike, not a strike provided by a maneuver.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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12 Jan 2023 14:43 #107189 by self biased

Because you're using a maneuver provided by a strike, not a strike provided by a maneuver.


is there a card where the strike is provided by a maneuver?

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