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14 Feb 2024 16:31 - 14 Feb 2024 16:33 #110698 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Wake + timing effects

Still it is no clear what takes precedense. What exactly means "when it is played" ? It means that i Play blank card and if nobody reacts then text of the card becomes visible ? OR the efect is already there but another vampire can make it blank with playing for. e.g. Iron Heart ?

From the rulebook:

Playing a Card

A card is played by announcing its effects, showing the card and placing it from the hand in the ash heap. Sometimes a card will state to put it into play, you should announce its effects and place the card in the play area.

ADVANCED RULES

Some effects can cancel a card “as it is played.” These effects, as well as wake effects, are the only effects allowed during the “as played” time period of another card. Even drawing to replace cards, comes after this time period.



Acting player plays unleash. The whole card is played (for me that means also the effect). No still in the phase !as it is played" you can play reaction cards that does not go opposite of the wording of the card.

So you play the card, but it can be cancelled before it resolves in the "as it is played" window.
If it isn't cancelled, then you resolve it.
However, as stated by the rulebook, one can play wake cards in that window, before Unleashing the Bestial Soul resolves. And since the wake effects lasts the whole action, that minion will still be under it's effect once the UtBS has resolved.

Rules says that "card text takes precedence to the rules". So the card text saying that the target vampire can not play reaction cards should be in effect.

Sure, once it has resolved, it will prevent further reaction cards from being played.
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Last edit: 14 Feb 2024 16:33 by Ankha.

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24 Apr 2024 06:52 #111249 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Wake + timing effects

Thank for the clarification

Please consider changing that, as it seems as it would massivly undermine "can't play reaction cards" effects, that you can play wakes as a reaction to "as played" to such an effect, like Psalm of the damned or Unleash the bestial soul.

I wouldn't change how wakes work to make two cards slightly better.


I would argue that the rules became like that in the first place just to make a couple of cards slightly better, mainly Rewind Time and Terra Incognita, although it does also affect cards like Touch of Clarity etc... That's not that many cards.

In 2004 we got an RTR stopping the "draw a cancel with Barrens" nonsense.
I wouldn't mind having a 2024 RTR stopping the "you can wake to cancel" nonsense TBH.
It is very misleading, as the situation is right now:

You just published a new card that says:

The chosen minion cannot play reaction cards this action.


And the first ruling it's gonna get is:

The chosen minion can play a wake as the card is played, before its effects apply.


To a fresh player, that's a very unexpected exception, even as aligned as it is with the rulebook.
A change might have to wait for 1.2 revision of the rulebook, and deserve a more careful analysis, but I would also argue for remedying the situation here.
The wake exception in the cancel window is an ugly piece of rule. It's unnecessary, and is just there to make a couple of cards slightly better. Simplifying and removing it sounds sensible.
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25 Apr 2024 10:22 #111268 by KoRneeshon
Replied by KoRneeshon on topic Wake + timing effects
I think it's getting much clearer when you realize that "Action card is played" is a separate step before "Action is announced" step. Wakes can be played in the "as card is played" window, and "as the action is announced" cards are, well, self-explanatory.
I agree it weakens few action mods, but cannot deny it is logical and not that hard to understand.

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26 Apr 2024 14:35 #111278 by self biased
Replied by self biased on topic Wake + timing effects
I mean if it were up to me, since Wakes operate so differently I'd make them Reflex cards and change how Reflex cards work in the rulebook.

But that's just me.
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