Blood Cult Awareness Network and Feast of the Soul's Secrets

Ankha wrote:

inm8 wrote:

The referenced ruling of LSJ for Undue Influence which was confirmed here to be applicable was about whether the action though conditional on the success of the bleed still counts as an action that add counters to an uncontrolled vampire….which it does.

Yes, by definition, an action requires to be successful to have its effect applied.
So BCAN gives the action -1 stealth, even though the action could be unsuccessful (it could be blocked), solely based on the effect the action card would have if it successful.
This extends to additional conditions such as "the action must be successful AND the bleed must be greater than 0".
Whether all conditions are met or not in the end doesn't change how BCAN interacts with it.

When we declare the action, like Feast of the Soul's Secrets, the card is in a quantum state where it adds counters to an uncontrolled vampire. I have no issue with this. It should cost an additional blood to declare and receive -1 stealth. That means that you need to be able to pay for that additional cost when declaring the action. (Though we know that costs can be altered at resolution.)

When the quantum state collapses and we know at resolution what is actually happening, why do we continue to apply the additional blood cost if the action no longer adds blood to an uncontrolled vampire? We allow cost reevaluation for other effects, such as High Orun, which alters the declared action's cost at resolution.

What is the rubric for knowing what effects allow for a reevaluation of the cost and what effects do not? Why can some affects, which alter the cost, be applied only at declaration and are fixed, while other can apply at resolution and are not? What I'd like to have clearly spelled out is that guideline because right now it seems unclear why some effects can be applied at resolution time and other cannot. And conversely, why things that are no longer applicable at resolution are still applied given the reevaluation of costs for other effects.

Here's a non-BCAN example:
The Slow Withering is in play.

Vampire A plays Feast of the Soul's Secrets at superior, declaring the bleed with the additional blood cost. Gets blocked and Amaranths in combat to diablerize the opposing vampire. Then continues the action using Momentary Delay. The action is successful.

They are now immune to The Slow Withering's effect. Does vampire A pay 1 or 2 blood at resolution time? By your BCAN statements, it would seem the answer would be 2. Is that, in fact, the case?

kschaefer wrote:

When the quantum state collapses and we know at resolution what is actually happening, why do we continue to apply the additional blood cost if the action no longer adds blood to an uncontrolled vampire?

BCAN cares about the “type” of action and not the outcome….the “type” doesn’t change because the condition for the effect isn’t met.

Similarly a minion is only allowed to perform one bleed (“type”) action per turn which even if unsuccessful (bleed amount = 0) it doesn’t allow the minion to bleed again.

kschaefer wrote:

Here's a non-BCAN example:
The Slow Withering is in play.

Vampire A plays Feast of the Soul's Secrets at superior, declaring the bleed with the additional blood cost. Gets blocked and Amaranths in combat to diablerize the opposing vampire. Then continues the action using Momentary Delay. The action is successful.

They are now immune to The Slow Withering's effect. Does vampire A pay 1 or 2 blood at resolution time? By your BCAN statements, it would seem the answer would be 2. Is that, in fact, the case?

The cost in this scenario at the time of successfully reaching action resolution would be 1 blood because of card text explicitly saying that the effect of TSW is to be ignored at the time when the cost is actually paid.