file Mirror Image as just a S:CE

20 Mar 2024 05:58 - 20 Mar 2024 06:07 #110952 by the1andonlime
In his ruling here groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/C_QjWH6VIh4/m/LGMpWNyO_e4J LSJ specifically singled out Mirror Image as "cannot be played at all"
Note: Form of Mist did not have the "if blocked" clause in 2007 when the ruling was made

If Mirror Image indeed cannot be played at all because there was no action to continue, it would imply that in any situation where the minion attempting to play it has no action to continue (e.g. blocking minion, or minion being rushed, etc), that minion cannot play Mirror Image

And by extension, all other similar cards (Shadow Body, Torrent, etc)

Is this correct, or is this an erroneous ruling that needs reversal?

Name: Mirror Image
[FN:C2/PR, LotN:PR2, POD:DTC]
Cardtype: Action Modifier/Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Chimerstry
[chi] [ACTION MODIFIER] +1 stealth.
[CHI] [COMBAT] Strike: combat ends. If this vampire was blocked while performing a non-bleed action, the action continues as if unblocked.
Artist: William O'Connor


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Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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Last edit: 20 Mar 2024 06:07 by the1andonlime.
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20 Mar 2024 07:09 #110953 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Mirror Image as just a S:CE
The below statement in isolation is wrong as the card is playable as long as there is combat (and no IG has been played).

Note that Mirror Image cannot be played at all, due to card text.

LSJ later explained the above to be because of the "if this vampire was blocked.."

>> Note that Mirror Image cannot be played at all, due to card text.
>
> Well in this case, I was talking about any (D) action - not just
> bleeds.
Well in this case, I was talking about Mirror Image's "If this vampire was
blocked" text, not the "other than bleeding" text. The vampire was not blocked,
so the "if" condition is not met.

The "if this vampire was blocked.." part doesn't prevent it from being played "at all" and is an additional effect that only triggers under the specified conditions.

> If I use Champion, and enter combat, because the
> action has failed - can the opposing minion continue it with effects
> such as Form of Mist, Mirror Image and the like?

but if put into the context of the actual question (above) which is if it can be used to continue a failed action it isn´t playable at all for the effect to continue the action as that effect specifically is conditioned around the vampire playing it having been blocked

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21 Mar 2024 03:22 #110962 by the1andonlime
The statement was not taken in isolation and is still relevant within full context

It actually seems to me like you are adding additional context that doesn't exist just to find some justification for the ruling to not be erroneous

We've gone through this before, and I think it's worth having @Ankha weigh in on this officially


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Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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21 Mar 2024 07:30 - 21 Mar 2024 07:31 #110964 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Mirror Image as just a S:CE

The below statement in isolation is wrong as the card is playable as long as there is combat (and no IG has been played).

Note that Mirror Image cannot be played at all, due to card text.

LSJ later explained the above to be because of the "if this vampire was blocked.."

>> Note that Mirror Image cannot be played at all, due to card text.
>
> Well in this case, I was talking about any (D) action - not just
> bleeds.
Well in this case, I was talking about Mirror Image's "If this vampire was
blocked" text, not the "other than bleeding" text. The vampire was not blocked,
so the "if" condition is not met.

The "if this vampire was blocked.." part doesn't prevent it from being played "at all" and is an additional effect that only triggers under the specified conditions.

> If I use Champion, and enter combat, because the
> action has failed - can the opposing minion continue it with effects
> such as Form of Mist, Mirror Image and the like?

but if put into the context of the actual question (above) which is if it can be used to continue a failed action it isn´t playable at all for the effect to continue the action as that effect specifically is conditioned around the vampire playing it having been blocked


Correct.

Read LSJ's statement within its context. "cannot be played at all [to continue the action]".

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Last edit: 21 Mar 2024 07:31 by Ankha.
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