file Combat Ends Resolution

06 Apr 2024 22:37 #111124 by Flores
I have a question regarding an acting and a blocking minion using combat ends cards.

Using an example to illustrate my issue here, let's say acting minion would use earth meld on the advanced option which ends combat and allows the vampire to unlock upon resolution. Now let's say blocking minion decides to use majesty, also on the advanced option to end combat and unlock as well. Now, I'm aware blocking minion can use strike cards even though acting minion chose a combat ends card, but will it be resolved?

Summing up, will the blocking minion get unlocked if the acting minion uses a combat ends card first?

Text for both cards mentioned on the example:

Name: Earth Meld
[Jyhad:C, VTES:C, Anarchs:C/PG2, 25th:6, V5A:PMin5, NB2:PG3]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Protean
[pro] Strike: combat ends.
[PRO] As above, and unlock this vampire before combat ends.
Artist: Ron Spencer

Name: Majesty
[Jyhad:C, VTES:C, CE:C/PV4, Anarchs:PAB2, LoB:PI2, LotN:PS4, KoT:C/PV4, SP:LB4, FB:PTo4, V5:PTo6/PV6, NB:PTo6/PV6, V5C:PR4]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Presence
 Strike: combat ends.
 As above, and unlock this vampire before combat ends.
Artist: Brian Snoddy; Joel Biske; Ginés Quiñonero

Now a follow-up question still on the combat ends topic: what about other cards, are there cases in which effects would be resolved even though combat ends is being used?
Using another example to illustrate this idea, the card "Riposte" ends combat and inflicts damage on the opposing minion, so let's say acting minion uses Riposte and blocking minion uses any other version of combat ends. Does blocking minion take damage from Riposte?

Text for the other card mentioned:

Name: Riposte
[DS:C3, CE:PTo, LoB:PO]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Celerity
Not usable on the first round of combat.
[cel] Strike: combat ends, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends if the range is close (damage not preventable).
[CEL] As above, but inflict 2 damage.
Artist: Pete Burges & Dave Roach

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07 Apr 2024 02:06 #111129 by ur_vampire
Replied by ur_vampire on topic Combat Ends Resolution
Hi,

both minions chose their strike, then you go to strike resolution, so both strikes are combat ends and both can untap.

and per cardtext, the blocking minion takes damage from Riposte

Best regards

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09 Apr 2024 03:06 #111145 by Flores
Replied by Flores on topic Combat Ends Resolution
That seems a reasonable response, but what about this section of the rulebook:

"Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, even before a strike done with first strike (see First Strike), and it ends combat before other strikes or other strike resolution effects are resolved."

This is essentially the reason why I had this question in the first place, since after choosing strikes, strike resolution phase follows, once one combat ends is resolved, the other one shouldn't, no? Meaning, only one of the combat ends should work, the other one would just be a selected strike that does not get resolved.

And for the riposte section, I have read the card, but my main argument as to why it seems weird to me that it would do damage even against combat ends is because it seems to behave very similarly to any other strike.
"The damage is only dealt if the strike was resolved at close range. [LSJ 19970915]" and
"If the strike is dodged, no damage is done. [LSJ 19980526][RTR 20041202]" are the reasons why this seemed confusing. My argument here is: riposte seems to have the same limitations as strikes like Coma, for example, so why should it behave differently here? Coma can be dodged and also doesn't send the opposing minion to torpor after combat ends, so why should riposte behave differently? Is there something specific that points to this?

Text for the card mentioned:

"Name: Coma
[Sabbat:U, SW:U, CE:U, BH:PM3, Third:U, FB:PM1]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 3 blood
Discipline: Dementation
[dem] Strike: send the opposing vampire to torpor.
[DEM] As above, and that opposing vampire does not unlock as normal during their next unlock phase.
Artist: Ash Arnett"

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09 Apr 2024 07:08 #111147 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Combat Ends Resolution

That seems a reasonable response, but what about this section of the rulebook:

"Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, even before a strike done with first strike (see First Strike), and it ends combat before other strikes or other strike resolution effects are resolved."

This is essentially the reason why I had this question in the first place, since after choosing strikes, strike resolution phase follows, once one combat ends is resolved, the other one shouldn't, no? Meaning, only one of the combat ends should work, the other one would just be a selected strike that does not get resolved.


When combat ends immediately it means one skips to the "End of Round" step of combat immediately without any further resolution of effects that are yet to resolve.

Strike resolution is simultaneous for the strikes that resolve at the same speed/timing window.

Order of strike resolution
X) Strike Dodge - Always resolves (defensive strike even if combined with an offensive effect) and protects the minion against effects from the opposing strike, the order is irrelevant
1) Strike Combat Ends - First strike to resolve (defensive even if combined with an offensive effect) together with other S: CE
2) First Strike - First offensive strike to resolve together with other First strikes
3) Normal Strike - Last to resolve together with other normal strikes


And for the riposte section, I have read the card, but my main argument as to why it seems weird to me that it would do damage even against combat ends is because it seems to behave very similarly to any other strike.
"The damage is only dealt if the strike was resolved at close range. [LSJ 19970915]" and
"If the strike is dodged, no damage is done. [LSJ 19980526][RTR 20041202]" are the reasons why this seemed confusing. My argument here is: riposte seems to have the same limitations as strikes like Coma, for example, so why should it behave differently here? Coma can be dodged and also doesn't send the opposing minion to torpor after combat ends, so why should riposte behave differently? Is there something specific that points to this?


See reason above. Coma is a normal strike and thereby not the same as Riposte
The following user(s) said Thank You: ur_vampire

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09 Apr 2024 16:42 - 09 Apr 2024 16:43 #111154 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Combat Ends Resolution

That seems a reasonable response, but what about this section of the rulebook:

"Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, even before a strike done with first strike (see First Strike), and it ends combat before other strikes or other strike resolution effects are resolved."

This is essentially the reason why I had this question in the first place, since after choosing strikes, strike resolution phase follows, once one combat ends is resolved, the other one shouldn't, no?


From the rulebook: "Resolve Strike: The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously."
If both players play a strike:combat ends, there's no reason why one would resolve before the other since they resolve "simultaneously".

"This type of strike is always the first to resolve,..." and both strikes are of this type.

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Last edit: 09 Apr 2024 16:43 by Ankha.

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