file Anathema, zero blood vampire and steal blood strike

11 Apr 2025 13:20 #114185 by Palamedes
Vampire A has zero blood and "Anathema" attached.
Vampire B enters combat with vampire A.
Vampire B plays "Theft of Vitae" to steal 1 blood.
Vampire A stikes hand strike for 1.

Question: Will this situation trigger Anathema?

Warning: Spoiler!
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11 Apr 2025 13:56 #114186 by Kilrauko

Vampire A has zero blood and "Anathema" attached.
Vampire B enters combat with vampire A.
Vampire B plays "Theft of Vitae" to steal 1 blood.
Vampire A stikes hand strike for 1.

Question: Will this situation trigger Anathema?

Warning: Spoiler!


Short. No.


Long. Per groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/tSpd9dtTElc/m/-CuHJF54_n0J

Anathema:
Burns the target vampire when the target is reduced to zero blood in combat,
regardless of the source of the loss of blood (card text). Still won't
burn a vampire just for entering a combat with zero blood, however - there
must be an actual "reduction" in blood.

an actual reduction is needed.

Going from 0 to 0 is not a reduction in blood. The Vampire A was at 0 blood with Anathema when the combat started, they were not burned and then they remained at 0 blood as Theft of Vitae steal effect per rulebook www.vekn.net/rulebook#strike-effects

Steal Blood: This effect moves blood counters or life counters from the target to the striking minion. This does not count as damage, so the effect cannot be prevented with damage prevention effects. This effect occurs before the mend damage step of damage resolution, so the stolen blood can be used to mend damage even if the damage is inflicted simultaneously. If the stolen blood causes the striking vampire to have more blood than their capacity, the excess drains off immediately.

did not move blood counters or life from the target to the striking minion (as there were nothing to move). If you reduce nothing from nothing it remains the same.

If you wish to avoid 0 blood cheesy Anathema non-burns, include
Name: Mercy for the Weak
[AH:C2]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 2 blood
Strike: combat ends. Only usable if this vampire has more blood than the opposing vampire. Opposing vampire gains 1 blood (even at long range).
Artist: Ron Spencer
and
Name: Telepathic Tracking
[SW:U, LoB:PO2, Third:U, SP:DoF3, NB:PTr2]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Auspex
[aus] Press, only usable to continue combat. If another round of combat occurs, this vampire gets 1 optional maneuver that round.
[AUS] Only usable if both combatants are still ready and combat would end. Instead, start a new round.
Artist: Mike Danza

to your deck...

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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11 Apr 2025 17:08 #114188 by Ankha
The question would make more sense if A is the one stealing blood, and B the one hand-striking (in which case, A would burn).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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11 Apr 2025 17:56 #114189 by Palamedes

The question would make more sense if A is the one stealing blood, and B the one hand-striking (in which case, A would burn).


That's clear, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly this an actual "reduction" in blood.

What if:
Vampire A has zero blood and "Anathema" attached.
Vampire B strikes him with hand strike for 1.

Will this trigger Anathema or Vampire A goes to torpor?

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11 Apr 2025 19:37 - 11 Apr 2025 19:59 #114190 by Kilrauko

The question would make more sense if A is the one stealing blood, and B the one hand-striking (in which case, A would burn).


That's clear, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly this an actual "reduction" in blood.

What if:
Vampire A has zero blood and "Anathema" attached.
Vampire B strikes him with hand strike for 1.

Will this trigger Anathema or Vampire A goes to torpor?


Torpor, per rulebook and handling damage www.vekn.net/rulebook/4-detailed-turn-sequence#damage-resolution

For each point of damage successfully inflicted on a vampire, they must burn 1 blood to mend the damage. A vampire can burn all of their blood if needed, and doing so does not have any other negative effects on the vampire. If a vampire cannot mend all the damage (that is, more damage is successfully inflicted than they have blood with which to mend), they burn blood to mend what damage they can, and the unmended damage leaves them wounded.


the vampire becomes wounded (as there's no blood to burn to mend the damage). Becoming wounded is not a reduction in blood, after all, nothing reduced from nothing is still the same.

EDIT: All this nothing reminded me of some lyrics that somewhat fit, aka how hard it is to trigger Anathema if opponent enters with zero blood and does not wish to give you pool.

"... How can you defeat that which finds
Nourishment in your attack?
How can you kill that which
Finds sanctuary in your blade?
How can you hinder that which
Embraces the strategies against it?
You can take nothing from not ..."

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 11 Apr 2025 19:59 by Kilrauko. Reason: EDIT: All this "nothing" discussion reminded me of some lyrics
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12 Apr 2025 10:30 #114193 by Ankha

The question would make more sense if A is the one stealing blood, and B the one hand-striking (in which case, A would burn).


That's clear, but I'm not sure if I understand correctly this an actual "reduction" in blood.

What if:
Vampire A has zero blood and "Anathema" attached.
Vampire B strikes him with hand strike for 1.

Will this trigger Anathema or Vampire A goes to torpor?

Reduction means you go from X to Y, where X is strictly greater than Y (for instance from 1 to 0. 0 to 0 doesn't work).

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