Damage done in or outside of combat

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16 Apr 2025 09:08 #114220 by Malachy

Damage done in or outside of combat was created by Malachy

Greets!

I came across these rulings, and I'm wondering if there is a contradiction here regarding the handling of damage outside combat. To be exact, I'm wondering why damage from Catanotic Fear + Domain of Everynight is NOT aggravated because it is applied outside of combat, but Nephandus' damage reduction (which also says 'in combat') DOES apply to Catatonic Fear's damage.

I quote rulings and card texts below:

[Temporis] Only applies to damage done in combat, not damage done after combat like
Catatonic Fear. [LSJ 20020314] [PIB 20130319]

Damage reduction applies to damage done outside of or after combat if it comes from a strike (eg.Catatonic Fear). [LSJ 20080630][ANK 20170111]

Name: Nephandus
AKA: Nephandus (Mage)
[Sabbat:R, Tenth:A, Third:R, SP:PwN8]
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Tremere antitribu
Cost: 2 pool
Mage with 2 life. 0 strength, 1 bleed.
Nephandus can strike: 1R damage. Nephandus gets 1 optional press each combat. Nephandus can burn a vampire in torpor to gain 1 life as a action. Each strike or damaging effect made by the opposing minion against Nephandus in combat inflicts 1 less damage.
Artist: Lawrence Snelly

Name: Catatonic Fear
[Sabbat:U, SW:U, FN:PS, CE:PTo, LoB:PI2, Third:U]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Presence
pre] Strike: combat ends.
PRE] As above, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends if the range is close.
Artist: Clint Langley

Name: Domain of Evernight
[BL:C1, LoB:C]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Temporis/Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[tem] If this action is blocked, all damage done to vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated.
[TEM] Only usable when an action is successful. Usable after resolution. Unlock this acting vampire. A vampire can play only one Domain of Evernight at superior each turn.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

NC of Hungary

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The following user(s) said Thank You: Kilrauko

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Malachy
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Methuselah

16 Apr 2025 11:44 - 16 Apr 2025 11:49 #114221 by Kilrauko

Replied by Kilrauko on topic Damage done in or outside of combat

Malachy wrote:
Greets!

I came across these rulings, and I'm wondering if there is a contradiction here regarding the handling of damage outside combat. To be exact, I'm wondering why damage from Catanotic Fear + Domain of Everynight is NOT aggravated because it is applied outside of combat, but Nephandus' damage reduction (which also says 'in combat') DOES apply to Catatonic Fear's damage.

I quote rulings and card texts below:

[Temporis] Only applies to damage done in combat, not damage done after combat like
Catatonic Fear. [LSJ 20020314] [PIB 20130319]

Damage reduction applies to damage done outside of or after combat if it comes from a strike (eg.Catatonic Fear). [LSJ 20080630][ANK 20170111]

Name: Nephandus
AKA: Nephandus (Mage)
[Sabbat:R, Tenth:A, Third:R, SP:PwN8]
Cardtype: Ally
Clan: Tremere antitribu
Cost: 2 pool
Mage with 2 life. 0 strength, 1 bleed.
Nephandus can strike: 1R damage. Nephandus gets 1 optional press each combat. Nephandus can burn a vampire in torpor to gain 1 life as a action. Each strike or damaging effect made by the opposing minion against Nephandus in combat inflicts 1 less damage.
Artist: Lawrence Snelly

Name: Catatonic Fear
[Sabbat:U, SW:U, FN:PS, CE:PTo, LoB:PI2, Third:U]
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Presence
pre] Strike: combat ends.
PRE] As above, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat ends if the range is close.
Artist: Clint Langley

Name: Domain of Evernight
[BL:C1, LoB:C]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Temporis/Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[tem] If this action is blocked, all damage done to vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated.
[TEM] Only usable when an action is successful. Usable after resolution. Unlock this acting vampire. A vampire can play only one Domain of Evernight at superior each turn.
Artist: Brian LeBlanc

No contradiction, in fact if you look at the latter of the two rulings you quoted and it's VEKN post, you can read the full reasoning behind why it was ruled to be so and caused a reversal. www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/72635-dam-the-heart-s-river-and-catatonic-fear?start=6#80117 You'll be able to follow to the original LSJ ruling as well.

It's all about when the strike is made and when damage is inflicted, which are two distinct things. Nephandus modifies the strike when it's made, Evernight, Daring the Dawn etc the damage when it's inflicted.

If you wish to deal aggravated damage with Catatonic Fear you'll need to get superior presence on Petra and go to town against Baali, note how there's no clause to be "during combat" for Petra hence it's not design oversight but clear decision on when and what it applies on. If they wished it to be otherwise, it would be worded differently.

Name: Petra
[Gehenna:U, HttB:PSam, FB:PN1]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Nosferatu
Group: 4
Capacity: 5
Discipline: aus ANI OBF
Camarilla: Damage Petra inflicts on Baali is aggravated. A vampire burns 1 blood after using a press to continue combat with her.
Artist: Chad Michael Ward

EDIT: And for future, if there would appear a card that allows you to play strike effect via say reaction card against acting minion, it would deal full damage on nephandus as that strike is not made "in combat."

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

Last edit: 16 Apr 2025 11:49 by Kilrauko. Reason: EDIT: Added note on Nephandus limits.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Malachy

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