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file Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit

27 Jul 2025 15:38 #115063 by Khalid1988
Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit was created by Khalid1988
This situation happened in a tournament today and ended up causing lots of chatter, so I thought it is best to bring it up for discussion here as well.
Name: Infernal Pursuit
[Jyhad:U2, VTES:U, CE:U/PB, LoB:PO]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity
[cel] Press.
[CEL] For the remainder of the combat, each time you replace a card (including when you draw to replace this card), draw an additional card and discard down to your hand size.
Artist: Ron Spencer
Name: Blood Weakens
[Gehenna:R, KoT:R, EoG:1]
Cardtype: Event
Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie.
During an action, cards minions play requiring 1 or more Disciplines are not replaced until the end of that action or until a Methuselah's hand is empty (whichever comes first). Vampires who commit diablerie ignore this effect until a Gehenna event is played.
Artist: Jeff Holt
Name: Stanislava
[DS:V, Anarchs:PG, 25th:4]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Gangrel
Group: 2
Capacity: 11
Discipline: ANI CEL DOM FOR PRO
Camarilla Gangrel Inner Circle: Retainers employed by minions opposing Stanislava in combat lose their abilities. Allies cannot block her. +2 bleed.
Artist: Max Shade Fellwalker
Name: Branimira
[V5C:PTz2]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Tzimisce
Group: 6
Capacity: 6
Discipline: dom pre pro ANI
Anarch Baron of Sofia: While you have 9 or fewer pool, Branimira gets +1 intercept.
Artist: Mark Kelly

Stanislava controlled by Bob enters combat with Timmy's Branimira. At the start of the combat, Stanislava plays Infernal Pursuit. However, Timmy has also played on the previous round Blood Weakens, which prevents vampires from replacing cards that require 1 or more Disciplines. At the same time, Stanislava's Infernal Pursuit says that Bob should draw an extra card and then discard down once.

So the questions in this above situation are:

1. Does the Blood Weakens effect of preventing replacing cards still apply for the duration of whole action and Bob should wait until the end of the action to replace all the played cards?

2. If so, what is the correct order of starting to replace and discard cards after Infernal Pursuit has been played after the action ends?
Prince of Tikkurila, known as Teemu P in Lackey CCG
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27 Jul 2025 19:54 - 27 Jul 2025 19:57 #115064 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit
The scenario doesn't require specifically Stanislava or Branimira, so to keep it simple, let's just use vampires A and B.
Thanks for posting the cardtext of the relevant cards though.

Infernal Pursuit says that Bob should draw an extra card and then discard down once.

It's not what the card says. It says "each time you replace a card, draw an additional card".

Since Blood Weakens prevents cards from being replaced, the condition to draw an additional card is not met.

1. Does the Blood Weakens effect of preventing replacing cards still apply for the duration of whole action and Bob should wait until the end of the action to replace all the played cards?

I'm confused by the use of the word "still". Blood Weakens is an event that is in play and is active. It prevents cards requiring 1 or more Disciplines from being replaced for the duration of the action, which includes the combat.

2. If so, what is the correct order of starting to replace and discard cards after Infernal Pursuit has been played after the action ends?

You just replace the cards but don't draw any additional ones since combat is over. It's handled differently if A empties their hand during combat => groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/H6Jm74N0v7k/m/zPi11g24bBUJ
Prince of Paris, France
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Last edit: 27 Jul 2025 19:57 by Ankha.
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28 Jul 2025 07:05 #115067 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit
Additional question regarding Infernal pursuit and blood weakens:

Does blood weakens reduce handsize or are cards simply not replaced and the handsize is still regular 7?

Example of what I mean:
Blood weakens is at table, we are in combat and player A plays Infernal pursuit and 2 other discipline cards. (not replaced)

Player A cards in hand: 4.
Player A plays taste of vitae, not a discipline card so IP affects this.
Player A draws 2 cards.
Do they discard a card or not?

Infernal pursuit doesnt make your discard cards, you are simply meant to discard to handsize if you are over it, but now the question is: what is the handsize? Is it 4 (blood weakens changes handsize) or is it the default 7?

If its the default, then player A does not discard and has 6 cards in hand. Correct?
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech

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28 Jul 2025 07:19 #115068 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit

Additional question regarding Infernal pursuit and blood weakens:

Does blood weakens reduce handsize or are cards simply not replaced and the handsize is still regular 7?


Rulebook: "The number of cards in your hand should always match your hand size (cards that are replaced later reduce your hand size for the duration of the effect)."

Blood weakens is at table, we are in combat and player A plays Infernal pursuit and 2 other discipline cards. (not replaced)

Player A cards in hand: 4.
Player A plays taste of vitae, not a discipline card so IP affects this.
Player A draws 2 cards.
Do they discard a card or not?

They discard since they have one card too many in hand.

Infernal pursuit doesnt make your discard cards, you are simply meant to discard to handsize if you are over it

Correct.

, but now the question is: what is the handsize? Is it 4 (blood weakens changes handsize) or is it the default 7?

See rulebook: cards that are not replaced count against the handsize.

If its the default, then player A does not discard and has 6 cards in hand. Correct?

Wrong.
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28 Jul 2025 08:54 #115074 by Khalid1988
Replied by Khalid1988 on topic Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit
Thank you for the clarifications. So based on this it sounds like Blood Weakens is pretty much the perfect anti-card against Infernal Pursuit.
Prince of Tikkurila, known as Teemu P in Lackey CCG
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28 Jul 2025 09:29 - 28 Jul 2025 09:34 #115075 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Clarifications on Blood Weakens and Infernal Pursuit

See rulebook: cards that are not replaced count against the handsize.


This was the critical info. Thank you.

However, Id like to point out that since IP does affect taste of vitae and thus the cards you draw are replacement cards, these cards would increase the functional handsize. The new handsize by this ruling would be 6 (both cards are replacement cards so they increase the handsize) and there still wouldn't be any discards. After playing taste of vitae the new handsize is 6 and IP itself does not force you to discard.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
Last edit: 28 Jul 2025 09:34 by Bloodartist.

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