Dealing before the game
22 Apr 2026 11:44 #116887
by Lönkka
Ankha, do you mean that players are _forbidden_ to make deals outside of the game?
How to prevent two finalists from discussing the finals before seats are chosen and coming to an arrangement? Say, they'll work together to oust a certain other finalist or they won't choose seats next to one another and will work in certain manner during the game.
None of the deals in the game are binding in any case and doublecrossing is very common. So why can't the finalists make deals while choosing the seating?
Saying that deals can't be made outside the game table seems rather idealistic approach as some people will in any case definitely make some kinds of deals beforehand...
and this will cause plenty of headache when trying to enforce such a rule.
Replied by Lönkka on topic Dealing before the game
You cannot make deals outside a game, so no.Situation that I have mentioned is like trade that for let's say for 1 VP (that means that offering player will be doing things to help another player to gain this 1 VP) another player will take the particular seat, it doesn't guarantee anyone GW, but can greatly influence game and it's outcome overall.
so that's why i'm asking if making such deals before game has even started is legal?
Ankha, do you mean that players are _forbidden_ to make deals outside of the game?
How to prevent two finalists from discussing the finals before seats are chosen and coming to an arrangement? Say, they'll work together to oust a certain other finalist or they won't choose seats next to one another and will work in certain manner during the game.
None of the deals in the game are binding in any case and doublecrossing is very common. So why can't the finalists make deals while choosing the seating?
Saying that deals can't be made outside the game table seems rather idealistic approach as some people will in any case definitely make some kinds of deals beforehand...
and this will cause plenty of headache when trying to enforce such a rule.
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23 Apr 2026 12:13 - 23 Apr 2026 12:15 #116894
by Ankha
If they do it in secret, it's collusion and should be sanctionned.
Deals should be done within the constraint of a game with a time-limit and the PTW aspect in mind. PTW is based on a game-state and is undefined before the game starts (as there is no "play" yet).
Keep in mind that all this topic is about dealing. Discussion are allowed but should not lead to any kind of deal.
If the seating takes too long, or if the players tend to haggle over the seating, the judge could decide to disallow further discussion.
Replied by Ankha on topic Dealing before the game
Yes.
You cannot make deals outside a game, so no.Situation that I have mentioned is like trade that for let's say for 1 VP (that means that offering player will be doing things to help another player to gain this 1 VP) another player will take the particular seat, it doesn't guarantee anyone GW, but can greatly influence game and it's outcome overall.
so that's why i'm asking if making such deals before game has even started is legal?
Ankha, do you mean that players are _forbidden_ to make deals outside of the game?
If they do it publicly, the judge can intervene.How to prevent two finalists from discussing the finals before seats are chosen and coming to an arrangement?
If they do it in secret, it's collusion and should be sanctionned.
That's a deal. Deals are not allowed outside the game.Say, they'll work together to oust a certain other finalist or they won't choose seats next to one another and will work in certain manner during the game.
Because it's not done during the game.None of the deals in the game are binding in any case and doublecrossing is very common. So why can't the finalists make deals while choosing the seating?
Deals should be done within the constraint of a game with a time-limit and the PTW aspect in mind. PTW is based on a game-state and is undefined before the game starts (as there is no "play" yet).
That would be cheating.Saying that deals can't be made outside the game table seems rather idealistic approach as some people will in any case definitely make some kinds of deals beforehand...
As much as preventing players from collusing or not playing to win.and this will cause plenty of headache when trying to enforce such a rule.
Keep in mind that all this topic is about dealing. Discussion are allowed but should not lead to any kind of deal.
If the seating takes too long, or if the players tend to haggle over the seating, the judge could decide to disallow further discussion.
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24 Apr 2026 11:35 #116901
by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Dealing before the game
Problem in Ankha's and Joscha's approach is that people will just do such deals while they have already finished third round and are waiting for the finals and all its procedures to start.
Proving anything they already negotiated is basically impossible.
Hence enforcing the rule becomes a mere joke.
(I will add that I do not have an opinion on the matter at hand. I just approach this on the enforceability.)
Proving anything they already negotiated is basically impossible.
Hence enforcing the rule becomes a mere joke.
(I will add that I do not have an opinion on the matter at hand. I just approach this on the enforceability.)
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