file Meditative Grove vs Rotschreck

24 Apr 2026 13:34 - 24 Apr 2026 13:39 #116909 by Raven
Can I cancel

Rötschreck
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is locked and sent to torpor. This vampire does not unlock as normal. During this vampire's next unlock phase, burn this card

With this effect of Meditative Grove?

Meditative Grove
Unique location. Hunting ground.
During your unlock phase, a ready Salubri you control can gain 1 blood. You can lock this card to cancel a frenzy card as it is played on a Salubri you control (cost is still paid). A vampire can gain blood from only one hunting ground each turn.


Can i Cancel Rötschreck with Bollix?

Bollix

Requires an Anarch.
Celerity Maneuver or press.
Presence Cancel an aim, frenzy, or grapple card as it is played by the opposing minion, and its cost is not paid.
Last edit: 24 Apr 2026 13:39 by Raven.
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24 Apr 2026 14:56 #116910 by Ankha

Can I cancel

Rötschreck
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is locked and sent to torpor. This vampire does not unlock as normal. During this vampire's next unlock phase, burn this card

With this effect of Meditative Grove?

Meditative Grove
Unique location. Hunting ground.
During your unlock phase, a ready Salubri you control can gain 1 blood. You can lock this card to cancel a frenzy card as it is played on a Salubri you control (cost is still paid). A vampire can gain blood from only one hunting ground each turn.

Yes.

Can i Cancel Rötschreck with Bollix?

Bollix

Requires an Anarch.
Celerity Maneuver or press.
Presence Cancel an aim, frenzy, or grapple card as it is played by the opposing minion, and its cost is not paid.

No. Rötschreck is not played by the opposing minion.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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24 Apr 2026 19:50 #116915 by filavander
Hi,
Could you elaborate why Meditative Grove can cancel Rötschreck, taking into account Meditative Grove's ruling:

Can => ONLY CANCEL MINION CARDS <= played from the hand in the normal fashion (eg. can't cancel allies played via Piper )

The rulling was taken from: vtesdecks.com/cards/library?name=Grov

What do I miss?

Thanks in advance.
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24 Apr 2026 20:26 - 24 Apr 2026 20:34 #116916 by Kilrauko

Hi,
Could you elaborate why Meditative Grove can cancel Rötschreck, taking into account Meditative Grove's ruling:

Can => ONLY CANCEL MINION CARDS <= played from the hand in the normal fashion (eg. can't cancel allies played via Piper )

The rulling was taken from: vtesdecks.com/cards/library?name=Grov

What do I miss?

Thanks in advance.


You are trusting a third party site quoting a ruling without checking the original ruling and it's context.

groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/GvxNYsYsWJ4/m/EY7NOjdsGCsJ

It's referring to this one while for whatever reason not using the full text of it. Again, blame the third party and always check the original ruling for context.

2. SUDDEN REVERSAL and DIRECT INTERVENTION can only cancel cards that
are played from the hand in the normal fashion.

Cards put in play (from the hand, ash heap, library, or elsewhere) by
some means other than being played as normal are not subject to being
canceled by Sudden Reversal or Direct Intervention.

In particular, this ruling reverses the RTR 08-JUL-1996 ruling that
Sudden Reversal can target the cards put into play by Bindusara's
special ability. It also reverses LSJ 04-MAY-1999 regarding the
canceling of the weapon brought into play with Disguised Weapon (The
Disguised Weapon can be canceled, but if it is not, the weapon
brought out cannot be canceled by Direct Intervention). Other things
that cannot be canceled by Sudden Reversal or Direct Intervention:
Equipment brought out by Magic of the Smith or Vast Wealth or Horrid
Reality, Discipline cards played when an Embrace or Third Tradition
or Creation Rites is played (or when a vampire diablerizes an older
vampire), etc.

Note: playing a card "as a vampire of capacity X with discipline D"
or paying less than the usual cost to play a card is still playing a
card in the normal sense. Cards played in these ways can still be
canceled as normal.


How do I know that's the ruling it's referencing? It's the only ruling with cancel on it made by LSJ (rules director at that time) on that topic. I do not know why third party sites like to shorten and misquote rulings and use them for cards that they are not related on as clearly the cardtext in Meditative Grove does not specify "can only cancel minion cards" and instead states "a frenzy card as it is played on a Salubri you control". I can only assume its part of automating process where certain words in cards like "cancel" automatically get certain rulings without QA oversight and instead they rely on people reporting them.

Lack of QA misses interaction between cards and their rulings. For example in this Rötschreck ruling that it is "played on a minion" which is enough to work with grove despite cardtext having words "put this card on". groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/tSpd9dtTElc/m/-CuHJF54_n0J

Rotschreck:
Play as written.
#
# That is, play on a vampire who is to receive aggravated damage from
# his opponent in combat.

Name: Meditative Grove
[V5C:PSal1]
Cardtype: Master
Clan: Salubri
Cost: 2 pool
Unique location. Hunting ground.
During your unlock phase, a ready Salubri you control can gain 1 blood. You can lock this card to cancel a frenzy card as it is played on a Salubri you control (cost is still paid). A vampire can gain blood from only one hunting ground each turn.
Artist: Peter Bergting
Name: Rötschreck
[Jyhad:U, CE:U, Anarchs:PG, BH:PTr2, KMW:PB, LoB:PA, Third:PTz]
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is locked and sent to torpor. This vampire does not unlock as normal. During this vampire's next unlock phase, burn this card.
Artist: Mike Danza

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Last edit: 24 Apr 2026 20:34 by Kilrauko. Reason: Added card texts as they were in 2026 for posterity
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25 Apr 2026 07:18 #116918 by filavander
"You are trusting a third party site quoting a ruling without checking the original ruling and it's context."

If I would absolutely trust the "vtesdeck stie" I didn't ask the the additional queston regarding "Meditative Grove" here.

I assume that you state that the ruling provided by vtesdeck site is not worth of trust - ok.

So I've got another question, is there a site for casual players which provides ORIGINAL RULES in more friendly format then this google jyhad group?

Or do you have an endpoint (maybe endpoints) which provides ORIGINAL RULES in i.e. JSON format?

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25 Apr 2026 16:27 - 25 Apr 2026 16:29 #116923 by Ankha

So I've got another question, is there a site for casual players which provides ORIGINAL RULES in more friendly format then this google jyhad group?

We call it a ruling, not a rule, and even less "original rule" that doesn't mean much as an original rule could be overridden.
Unfortunately, there aren't other websites with that content.

Or do you have an endpoint (maybe endpoints) which provides ORIGINAL RULES in i.e. JSON format?

I made an archive:
www.vekn.net/images/stories/rec.jyhad.7z

In any case, the answer to your first questions is: cardtext. The ruling is about cancelling cards not played from the hand.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 25 Apr 2026 16:29 by Ankha.

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