Master change suggestions

Option 1 : limit MPA to two per phase.

Ankha wrote:

Option 1: You can't play more than 2 master cards each turn (whatever the number of master phase actions you have). Extra master phase actions may still be used for other effects (eg. taking a counter from a Short Term Investment).

It would have been nice before Lilith's Blessing. Now I am not sure it is enough.

Option 2: Master cards played during the master phase are not replaced until the discard phase (unless othewise stated).

Option 3: Master cards beyond the first played during the master phase are not replaced until the discard phase (unless othewise stated).

There are already master cards that have been balanced with a Do not replace clasue (Liquidation and Wash at least), so I am afraid this change is too deep to add on top of the game as it is now.

Ankha wrote:

Many people complain about MMPA abuse. I'm aware that some recent cards make MMPA a very strong strategy: Ashur Tablets, Liquidation, Villein, leading sometime to watch someone play Master: The Eternal Master Phase.
...
Thoughts?

I realise this is in the Card Balance and Strategy section, rather than Expansions and Card Ideas, but how feasible would it be to address some of the issues with useful cards?

For example, just rattling some ideas off with little thought to cost/balance, but rather just utility:

The idea being that the Gehenna event bit makes it more generically useful, and the choice gives you some interesting decisions to make.

The inferior is a bit meh, but wants to be something a bit generally defensive so you might keep three or four on hand.

Inspired by Baltimore Purge, on steroids.

Ankha wrote:

The trouble with cards is that it doesn't really address the issue that is quite general: it's very easy to have multiple MPA and abuse from it.

It's quite easy to abuse stealth-bleed, but we still print bounce cards, and we still print new bleed modifiers.

Ankha wrote:

Paying additionnal pool for further MPA has very little impact on heavy MMPA, and quite an unwanted impact on other decks that would play Wider View + Blood Doll for example.

How would a card that explicitly excludes the extra MPA generated by a Trifle hurt someone playing Wider View + Blood Doll? Or someone playing two copies of Aye?

Ankha wrote:

Making it an event will make it end when the player is ousted.

Sure, and Narrow Minds goes away when the player is ousted, but it's still a useful card.

What I'm trying to address is giving players scope for interaction, deck development and meta-game choice, rather than taking away choice. (This also gives players the scope to be wrong, and to do wrong things. That's a feature, not a bug.)

I don't think, that multiple Master phases allow that strong abuse of master cards. It's true, that given deck archetype is strong, namely being able to play several strong effects.

What makes multiple MPA decks strong is that they look innocent compared to for example wheenie DEM or OBF/DOM decks. MMPA decks are resilient, but not overly so.

MMPA decks have some severe issues, one being that they need certain vampires needed to run them: Anson, Nana, Huitzi and Cybele. That makes them identifiable.

Second issue with MMPA decks is, that they can play only one master card out of turn (if they have out-of-turn master in hand) and rest can be played only during master phase. That makes them vulnerable at all other turn phases, since they are likely to have reduced hand size due master card clogging.

I see, that there are several ways to beat them: Take down their key vampire - the one that grants them more master phases. Rushing is one option, but Nana and Anson are "only" 8 caps, so you can banish them. Yes, I know that they can be influenced back, but that both delays them and takes away pool gained from villein. That is what you could do cardwise.

One thing is, that MMPA decks are rather slow, and that is one of their strengths - they seem to do nothing while running their thing: there is likely faster and more aggressive deck which seems to be a table threat at the moment. Aggressive decks allow other decks to fly under radar, and MMPA decks also abuse that aspect of the game.

Why are MMPA decks so strong? It all depends on who plays them, which is true to all (good) decks. And smart players, whether they played a MMPA deck or not, play V:tES as mind game as well as card game.

My point is: Use MMPA deck's disadvantages (slow, master card clogging) to your advantage. My second point is: You are not alone in the table to play against any deck - play mind game and request help from other players or help other players to oust a troublesome (MMPA) deck.