who is the hands down worste 11 cap?

I feel like adding Enkidu into the discussion just 'cus I've never won a game with him as a star. Otherwise: Harrod.

kombainas wrote:

Rafael is still IC with +2 bleed, PRE and OBF, plus shares AUS with Lutz, thus fitting perfectly into 4th group IC decks. He sucks as a star, but he is still a good tag-along.

Mind rape deck, Flurry of action deck, New Council of Doom, Alastors 4-5, etc.
With his spread of disciplines he can combine with a lot of clans and high cap vampires. 4 Votes and +2 bleed. He is not top notch, but flexible enough to see him in a lot of tournament winning decks. By far does he not belong to the bottom of the elevenths.

Harrod is weak. Von Bauren as well. Yeah, someone in the old design-team didn't like the Nosferatu much Basically all 11-caps without multi-act-capability suck somewhat as opposed to their more blessed kindred. Flurry of action, Rutor's hand etc only go so far to make up for the lack of true power.

that said, Elimelech can be very powerful in the right deck. the occasional claws of the dead with first strike can end some games real fast. he can also bounce like a m¨%£5µ;%?$ker.

I always found Leandro & even Etrius to be an especially big disappointment as well (compared to Arika/Stanislava).

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Elimelech can get, wt: four ride forth combined with enkil cog for free multiaction with no fear of archon investigations.
On a malkavian black hand deck he is capable of playing the art of memory and can influence other vampires really fast ( govern, the call, reunion kamut ).

Well, yes, but he is far from being alone to be able to do that, and he is very expensive for such shenanigan compared to other vampires. Blackhorse Tanner or Al-Munthatir work almost as well for multiacting and speed influence, while having worthwhile special or discipline.

I also feel he is vastly overshadowed by Appius Corvius, who is much better at stealth bleeding in my experience, and have The Rake and Saul Meira who share all three discipline and black hand. Saul Meira is also another enabler of Enkil Cog Shenanigan (which are a lot more needed for Appius since he have no natural multiacting)

Dr.Mafrune wrote:

Mind rape deck, Flurry of action deck, New Council of Doom, Alastors 4-5, etc.
With his spread of disciplines he can combine with a lot of clans and high cap vampires. 4 Votes and +2 bleed. He is not top notch, but flexible enough to see him in a lot of tournament winning decks. By far does he not belong to the bottom of the elevenths.

That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ; he have discipline who work well together but he lack an additional ability, or a discipline to make him worthwhile alone. That's sad (and subjective) for an 11-cap.

I could imagine playing Augustus as a main vampire because of his hard to use and silly special, but I don't see any fun or efficient reason to center around.

Of course, you can say he is good because he have classic discipline together. I find he is lacking.

Nobody posted that link yet?
vtesone.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/harrod-vs-josef-von-bauren/

I don't think Elimelech is that bad. He brings a lot of multiaction as a Seraph with and he can be be influenced by younger vampires with Reunion Kamut.

Ohlmann wrote:

That depend on how you class the 11 caps. Nobody have done a Raphael superstar deck ;

It might not be a star deck, but he is the best vampire in a Flurry of action deck because he is the only one with the 4 disciplines: . Adana lacks , Fanchon lacks .