file The Slaughterhouse

14 Feb 2017 21:40 #80693 by jamesatzephyr
Replied by jamesatzephyr on topic The Slaughterhouse

I'm not sure what you all are doing to make burning eight cards a turn weak. That can completely ruin many decks.


Largely, a combination of two things:

1) The Harbinger is merrily tossing out cards from its prey. It potentially uses Trochomancy to oust its prey. The prey is ousted. New prey, and you have to start milling them all over again. Most games don't have that many turns for each deck, overall. An interesting feature of milling is that until the deck is empty, it actually doesn't directly affect the target in terms of what they draw - unless you have library foresight or manipulation abilities (most decks don't), losing a few cards off the top of your library is the same as your deck just having been shuffled differently.

2) By playing Slaughterhouse, the Harbinger is not playing a whole truck of other really, really strong master cards in the quantities it could be. This will often give a predator an opportunity to strike because - in particular - you're missing out on pool gain, from Villein, Blood Doll, Vessel, Giant's Blood etc.

He uses the Slaughterhouse to power Trochomancy, which is +bleed by burning ash heap cards. All bleeds directed at him are redirected with Telepathic Misdirection or Telepathic Counter. Any attempt to enter combat with him is met with combat ends or fortitude. It's truly nasty.


So, there are a whole bunch of things you can be doing.

First, a very simple one - pack some Washes, or another anti-master tech of your choice. It won't neutralize him, but it can slow him down. Wash, in particular, is very little cost to you, and highly versatile. Your players should be playing strong master cards, so even when you don't see the Slaughterhouse deck, you can be reversing Villein, Dreams of the Sphinx, Pentex Subversion, Week of Nightmares, or whatever else. If several decks on the table see it as a problem, it might well lose several of its Slaughterhouses - and if the deck is so overwhelmingly strong that it destroys everything unstoppably, several decks on the table should see it as a problem.

Along similar lines, it's a location. There are a bunch of ways of interacting with locations, and the deck as described isn't also a superlative intercept wall, so some of those actions can get through. Burn it with Arson or Conceal, steal it with Disputed Territory or Dominate Kine.

The deck as described has a bunch of natural holes. Stealth-vote isn't susceptible to Telepathic Misdirection or Telepathic Counter or Combat Ends or Fortitude. Obfuscate Ventrue can do it very well indeed - throw in some Parity Shift, KRC, maybe a couple of Disputed Territory or Banishment. Mix in some Mind Rape for fun and profit. Stealth-anything has the potential to do well.

The deck as described is relatively toolbox-y, in that it has a bunch of Telepathic Misdirection, a bunch of Telepathic Counter, some Fortitude combat defence, some Combat Ends, some Trochomancy, and Slaughterhouses. The thing with toolbox decks is that they have a whole lot of breadth but often not a lot of depth. You can try to make it run out of certain types of cards by focusing your tactics.

For example, it only has so many Telepathic Misdirections and Counters. Bleed little and often - and bounce bleeders there yourself, if you can. Playing weenie decks can help there. Bleed a lot of times using very few resources, and do it again next turn. Weenie Fortitude can be a lot of fun here, as one option.

You mention Combat Ends. Any significant combat deck shouldn't care too much about Combat Ends - Immortal Grapple, Psyche!, Telepathic Tracking, Sanguine Entrapment. You should be able to prevent or whittle away the combat ends easily in any fairly serious combat deck.

Fortitude combat defence is slightly trickier - but again, it doesn't have infinite of it if it's packing all the things you say it's packing. Look at the Fortitude combat defence it chooses and try to play in a way that upsets it. If it's playing damage prevention that prevents a set amount of damage in one go - say, Skin of Rock or Resilience, or that sort of card - consider going for additional strikes. Celeritous gun decks can plough through S:CE with Psyche! and gain an additional strike when it doesn't face an S:CE. Relative weenies with Concealed Magnums is playable. If it's using more cards like Skin of Steel, or cards with blood costs, you can potentially go to multiple rounds - Psyche! lets you press, Telepathic Tracking lets you press, Immortal Grapple (superior) lets you press. Or if it's Skin of Steel type cards preventing damage from strikes, look at doing non-strike damage - going back to weenies, weenie Animalism can be brutal with Carrion Crows and Aid from Bats. Sure, you waste a few bleed actions to Telepathic Counter or S:CE, but it can't do everything all the time or else it will never draw Slaughterhouses, Trochomancies and cards it needs to get its bleeds through - and with a well played weenie deck, you should out-minion it.

Most Harbingers decks are slower to start, as their smallest vampires are 5 caps, and any given Harbingers deck could easily find itself with an uncontrolled region that is quite a bit bigger than that. Capitalize on the speed - weenie Legacy of Pander, weenie Dominate, weenie Dementation, or any deck that can get off to a flying start. Such decks can potentially go very aggressive and have done a lot of pool damage before the Harbinger even has its first vampire out. Sure, the deck might not be able to sustain that - but that's okay, you've got the unstoppable Harbinger deck off the table, gained 6 pool, and can maybe catch your breath next turn.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, CelestialChoir

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 Feb 2017 21:42 #80694 by CelestialChoir
Replied by CelestialChoir on topic The Slaughterhouse
Oh, duh! Disputed Territory. It's never a wasted card if another deck is around, and it can vengefully give the Slaughterhouse to his predator.
I'm so sorry I bothered you all. Please return to your shadows with all of Set's blessings.

Prince of Asheville
:fose: :PRE: :SER: :AUS: :cel: :life7:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Feb 2017 00:01 #80700 by cordovader
Replied by cordovader on topic The Slaughterhouse
I cannot believe there is a discussion on errating Slaughterhouse to make it weaker... :/
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, Ezra

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Feb 2017 00:18 #80701 by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic The Slaughterhouse
It is time to take a deep breath and go back to reality: Slaughterhouse has 0 effect on the game until one exhausts the whole deck of one's prey. The real question is: with such a non-existant preditor, why is his prey not steamrolling the table before running out of cards? It looks more like a metagame issue: you playgroup does not need specific answers to Slaughterhouse, it needs better decks at ousting their prey.

All bleeds directed at him are redirected with Telepathic Misdirection or Telepathic Counter.

Play more bleed.

Any attempt to enter combat with him is met with combat ends or fortitude.

Play more combat.

I am not joking. Any deck has to spread its defenses against multiple threats, so if you stick to one way of hurting it he will run out of defensive cards against you. The trick is to focus one one thing and do it well.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Feb 2017 00:39 #80702 by CelestialChoir
Replied by CelestialChoir on topic The Slaughterhouse
It appears that the consensus is that Slaughterhouse is not as terrible as I have seen it.
I suppose it's hard to find a card to equate to. Glutton, the Istarri master card, is the closest I can find to giving Slaughterhouse balance.
I submit though. Slaughterhouse is fine. I'm just whining.

Prince of Asheville
:fose: :PRE: :SER: :AUS: :cel: :life7:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
15 Feb 2017 00:44 #80704 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic The Slaughterhouse

I cannot believe there is a discussion on errating Slaughterhouse to make it weaker... :/


I think removing pool cost will make it more playable.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.093 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum