Deck Archetype: Second Trad Guns
30 Jan 2019 00:27 - 30 Jan 2019 01:37 #93204
by ReverendRevolver
Deck Archetype: Second Trad Guns was created by ReverendRevolver
There was recently a topic that included discussions on Tiers and such, and while several archetypes can straddle several Tiers, I feel it would be a worthwhile endeavor to catalog anything "B Tier" or higher. I would like to add the qualifier of 4 or more TWDs that fit the archetype, and if more exist just pick ones that best illustrate the deck.
So, here's one of my Favorite Archetypes, Second Trad
guns.
This Archtype focuses on utilizing princes with to provide a combat wall that is relatively robust .
This is seldom the entire way to victory, and what flavors the deck is the other components that enable strategies outside of waiting to take the table at the 3 way.
Crypt:
Most viable second trad celerity guns decks use group 2 in addition to 1or3. Why? Currently, the most efficient prince is Volker. At capacity 5, and sporting a barely relevant drawback, he is the ideal supporter for 7-8 pool worth of your main prince. Additionally, while 4caps exist in nearly all groupings, the niche of 3 cap is filled solely by Sarah Brando, and investing 3 pool into a vamp to chump bleed or play a carded rush is easier than 4 pool, especially considering the 2 extra pool for a 44.
Of course, groups 2&3 have solid 4 caps, Jimmy Dunn and Victor Toliver in 2, Scarlet, and Parmenides, and the 3 relevant groups have 5 caps with to add in support 
or whatever if needed.
But the deck isn't much a blocker without another prince (or justicar I guess) and typically who you pick to be your primary vamp determines most of the strategy:
Ira is the least pool intense at 7, with card cycling and additional intercept against political actions to boot. Splashing
frequently happens with him at the helm or involved at all, giving access to bounce and eyes of argus. Support vamps like Zoe and isabel de leon show up helping him often to utilize the added . He is himself support in Torrie builds using villon and othe group 2 fatties with Alexandra, although this build and ones using Halton and Guil are less popular post KoT. Why?
Anson: his special was never useless, but after Ashur Tablets became an option, Anson got great in AAA decks that played out like Girls decks as well as second trad guns using them. The basics of the deck use Anson and group 2 support (often including at least one 8 cap prince) then using masters galore with him and small amounts of to assert yourself and often get vps before the 3 way(where you win).
But that's the least brutal build. Infernal pursuit, Liquidation, Anthelios were all options before the latters ban, but the more controllable (if card intensive) IF is still quite viable, and with no nerf on tablets, liquidation is still quite viable.
Anson also has
and while not common, is capable of being ran with Euro Bru princes.
Anneke- so, she is without a doubt her own archetype in some cases but technically crosses into second trad guns unless you find a build without second tradition. She has in clans at SUP and (so overlaps with Anson and the Eurobru cast) . She shines with the built in Eagles sight, and can run with Anson support as well as Marcellus and Villon. Her standing plus bleed helps motivate people to block her, and unlike Marcellus she could throw Aire of Elation, also a good motivator to block.
The others- theres one deck on this list using a smattering of fatties with
/ and 
and another one running fatties in general. The inherent advantage is you get more consistent votes, fatter minions for your fatty favoring political actions, and you don't have to worry about contesting Anson.
Basics of play:
You need out a prince to play. Most builds get your Ira/Anson and then want Volker prior to support weenies.
You want to get pool back too, but how you do it depends on your deck. PB monty/Art museum get a little bit for you, but remember you will be paying for 2 to 3 44s early on, so dont overspend.
Speaking of, many decks run princes, especially Anson. You may be better off displaying what you do by moving cards than trying to explain you aren't a AAA girls deck. Let's say your predator bleeds with Kindred spirits or your prey governs down; blocking with a second trad and then conceal->44-> shooting them a few times sends 3 messages loud and clear: you're playing a celerity guns second trad deck. You have some capacity to remove minions at your leisure (and who really wants to find out how much red is in the deck?) , and you don't intend to be letting them do whatever that action is very frequently. If the situation warrants torping their minion, cool, but its normally better leaving them above ground and low on beads. Ideally, you've villeined or minion tapped beads and you managed to taste back 4 ish beads during this altercation.
Your early and midgame is basically rushing and blocking if you need to, and continuously bleeding for 1 or 2 with 2 to 3 minions a turn as long as its practical. You may be seated perfectly and get a game dunk on an aggressive prey and oust them. It's just as likely that your forward pressure is diminished by an aggressive predator that you back rush with your weenies.
Either way, you're a combat wall, so limiting your crazy until the 3 way is fine; in Anson+Ashurs builds you're going to scoop back 13 cards, many of which will be red anyway, so you're fights can be more card intensive if need be.
Now, once one oust happens, estimate who falls next, so you can plan your GW from the resulting 3 way. If it helps you more to be with one deck gone over another, know that you want to achieve that. Also know that if you have 0 vps at the 3 way you have to take both remaining vps in most situations. In a final, where seeding is king, know who you can afford to let live into the midgame before you sit down.
As long as you have reasonable blocking and combat capabilities, and aren't at 30min or less remaining upon entering a 3 player game, you should be able to come out ahead. Of course, possessing pool generating masters (rack/papillon with BD/vessel, Monty, art museum, etc) helps, as does Jack/fame hitting the table while you take a pool or 2 a turn. Knowing what not to rush or block is key; 2 other people have the same goal as you, and you want them against each other, not just you. Pretending you possess only the means to not die but can't oust isn't easy at this point, but it's where you want the table to see you.
Typically your prey getting wrecked by your predator wont happen as often as vice versa, but whoever's better off, if it's your prey, remove a key minion they needed to oust, then remove thier pool from the table. Ideally, if the 3 way went right, the last oust will be like killing a cockroach you helped make unkillable, but you should be able to remove whichever resources keep them alive then put them away.
Or, the whole thing will barely work, but remember that you need to win the 3 way and life is better.
Hazards:
Grapple Combat:
Unless you suck or your deck hates you, its mathematically likely you outmaneuver
grapple combat. They throw stuff and run slam, but you will average 2 manuevers to thier 1 or 0.
Exceptions: Tupdogs run set range to close. This means Disengage matters if they're expected. You can always hands 1 a bunch, but unless you throw off thier flow with diablery, you're in trouble.
Count Germaine- no guns work on him, he rushes torries and merged he gets standing plus bleed. Hope he's not your starting predator or prey and hope hes gone by 3 way. If not, his supporters aren't as unkillable, hes pentexable, and I guess you can contest fame for an oust? It's not easy, to say the least.
most animalism combat run crows and DotB as pres, then aid from bats to long, you take 1 from strike, 2 crows, 1 DotB. If they do this, you have 2strength, so use your manuevers to get up close and rearrange their face a bit with your additional strikes, using Psyche to press. This drops most weenie as well as girls builds often. Lucian the perfect is taxing, but Ira/Anson have enough blood to do it.
If they don't DotB, great, shoot them, lots. The real danger is the 2 pool hit if they Canine Horde your gun, so if they're acting let them strike first, and dont manuever off the 44. 1 damage doesn't matter if they hands, and sideslip saves your gun. This means blocking deep song rushes. Most decks run 2 or less Hordes, so that's a blessing. Also, Sires index finger stops DotB and Deep songs, if needed.
The new Gal: Matasuntha is brutal, and has several ways to wreck your day. Her hands are more dangerous than a 44, she earth melds, psyches, manuevers, generates additional strikes, has several different carded rushes… Pentex her or hope her owner only has masters and bounce in hand. Also, her support cast isn't as dangerous as her, and make good fame targets.
Other things hurt, so saving DI for kids of Ra isn't a bad plan, but a bad opening hand/crypt draw is the bane of many decks staring down powerbleed.
Masters:
Tension and fame are solid, as you seldom dont choose who goes down. Pool gain is critical, PBmonty, minion tap/villein, etc, and a plethora of other things depending on the deck, such as Tablets, Pentex,art museum, Ball, Jack, etc. DI is probably worth including in most builds.
Monestary is strong in modern builds, as is Papillon (you typically have 2 princes on deck, why not, especially with Ira and Volker saving pool).
Zillahs/Tomb o Ramses are just as justified in these 10cap decks as others, understandably.
TheRack is traditionally viable here, often paired with blood management like vessel and blood doll.
AI is useful, especially if not packing bounce.
Sudden and Wash are not uncommon, but bleeding the vine is typically too pool intensive.
Action:
Rushes, frequently just BR. In using builds, nose of the hound is a great choice, but having Sarah and Volker unable to use it hurts a bit.
Ambush and Harass are not ideal, Big Game has been done. Really, the no dredraw sucks, but the manuever is great; 1 from card, 1 from gun gets you away from most grapples, and you run pursuit in quantities where you draw it routinely.
Political actions are common, Parity shift is easily justified in most builds. Enchant is solid in low numbers in Anson and Anneke. Political Stranglehold, Ancient Influence, Reins of Power are all strong for the fatter builds, but since you for sure have princes, many modern builds run at least a single P-Shift.
Combat:
Pursuit, manuever to keep harm away, additional strike to put harm where you want it, no blood cost. Very much the red card you like here.
Psyche, to start new combats and get to use inherent 44 manuever again, so pressing isnt ideal, but still is useful to counter other presses in a bind, or continue hands beatdowns in very cornercase situations.
concealed weapon, because this is how you get 44s out without wasting an action. Getting out the gun in combat is crucial to keeping up bleeds of one or 2 so you dont have a defensive mode grandprey, bloated prey, and severely unbalanced table. Even a “friendly rush” to move cards and equip a gun isn't a bad idea, If it makes sense with table conditions, and typically early game it does. Ratio of conceal to 44 should be 1:1 or 1:1(+1) taste. Which is typically 6conceal:6gun, or 7 gun, sliding up or down for deck size.
Taste, because you will be losing beads in combat and be turning them into pool. It's ok though, because 3-4 tastes is typically plentiful to “permanently borrow beads from Vamps belonging to the person in the seats next to you.
A few sideslip, not too crazy, but it's hard to stay good at blocking when an ivory bow plows through every minion you have. Its also a just good to be able to dodge things if you have to and not run other cards to do so.
a few blur, again nothing crazy, but 2to4 is typically 1 blood spent to remove 4, with typically 6ish to taste.
Fast hands and flash are used, but honestly ones too niche and flash isn't ever better than a psyche or pursuit unless you're already in trouble. Fast hands is a junky win more card, I stole a flamethrower once with LOTS of table talk, but I've never seen the stars align to justify this cards inclusion. The great players who use it run 1, which should be telling. Flash is not trash, per se, but presses aren't desirable if this deck is working. Psyche resets the combat, netting another maneuver off the 44. Pursuit is a manuever, or that other 2r damage, which is all you're guaranteed to try for is you use flash to press to continue. It doesn't justify inclusion like psyche, pursuit, sideslip, or taste.
Disengage is not terrible, it became needed when Tupdogs reined.
Infernal Pursuit in applicable builds.
Target Vitals isn't bad, but additional pursuits generally yield similar results. In games where opposition prevents with
using aim cards on additional strikes when your initial strike doesn't get a superior RwtP is viable, but not by any means ideal.
Reaction:
Second trad. Period.
Add auspex bounce and eyes of argus, the occasional quicken sight if needed.
Prior to eyes of argus, other auspex was typically used, but the auxiliary effects such as a manuever or preventing a damage are typically not needed since you run red cards to do the same things, and the wake from EoA or its 2 intercept at basic make it typically a choice that keeps players alive longer.
Equipment
See combat for 44 conceal basics. Hard equipping in a deck that doesn't have multiact outs you at a disadvantage, so while Kevlar vests, Bowls, Hearts are far from useless, card flow aligns with concealing out a 44. 2R damage and a manuever to get you away from scary and 
nonsense pairs with your rather basic but effective cards (all 4 of them…) and the synergy created by this justifies the decks combat with little more than unlock plus intercept from second trad.
Modifiers:
Not a requirement, but Aire of Elation fills in the lack of forward pressure issue combat walls get.
Resist Earths grasp is sometimes used, but the blood cost makes it rough in some builds.
Hypothetically, Zephyr is ok here, as it immediately untaps after a blocked bleed or rush, leaving you poised for the other. It's not a great card, but here its playable.
Other toys:
Carlton is easy to justify, Aranthebes, Scourge of the Enochians, Dragonbound, Bowl of convergence… there are options.
The future of the archetype:
The strongest recent cards that boosted the archetype are from KoT, in the form of Ashur Tablets. Subsequent bans of Anthelios and Lilith's Blessing are a small drawback, but had some impact on Anson builds.
The crypts are still Anchored to early groupings by nature of limited princes that justify the deck and no 5 cap prince.
Additionally, Vasily is the most promising candidate in groups 4-5 along with 7 cap Karen. But Carlack is the natural 3rd prince, and his title contests with Vasily. None of them have a great text box like Anson or Ira, so while not out of the question, they're not as good as IRA and Volker, AND lack a 3 cap with .
BC has Rebekah and Mark Decker that have and are princes. Rebekah and Eurobru could EASILY be a possibility, but until more cam sets, this archetype is rooted to its support to to guy, Volker. (KoT torries support Dominate but not guns…)
Having said that, it's a very easy archetype to learn combat with, so here's hoping for more support into the future.
High tier decklists:
Second trad guns
This is a smattering of different flavors, not a best of or most viable list.
Deck Name: Not Dead Yet!: Rich Rod's Angry Dragon
Author: Brad Cashdollar
Description:
"Not Dead Yet!"
Flint, Michigan
February 27, 2011
26 players
2R + F
Brad Cashdollar's Tournament Winning Deck
Deck Name: Rich Rod's Angry Dragon
Author: Brad Cashdollar
Description: nosey Toreadors that shoot people ... a lot
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=10 avg=8.25)
================================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Dorian Strack 4 cel AUS Toreador:1
1x Felicia Mostrom 5 pre AUS CEL Toreador:1
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Kallista, Master Sculptor 6 pre pro AUS CEL Toreador:1
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (10)
1x Art Museum
1x Dark Influences
1x Monastery of Shadows
1x Papillon
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Rack, The
4x Vessel
Equipment (8)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
Reaction (42)
4x Eagle's Sight
4x Enhanced Senses
4x Eyes of Argus
10x Forced Awakening
4x Quicken Sight
6x Second Tradition: Domain
4x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (30)
4x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
6x Pursuit
6x Side Strike
6x Sideslip
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:07:57)
Deck Name: 3rd Annual Blood Runs Cold: Fran and Alex
Author: Jim Miller
Description:
The Plaza Bowl, Virginia, MN. 2+F, constructed
The Tournament Winning Deck with 4 VPs on the final table
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=7 max=11 avg=9.5)
===============================================
3x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Fleurdumal 8 cel tha AUS DEM PRE Toreador:3
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Lucas Halton 10 qui AUS CEL DOM THA Tremere:3
1x Madame Guil 10 for pot ser AUS CEL PRE Toreador:3
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (15)
1x Art Museum
1x Blood Doll
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
2x Grooming the Protégé
1x Information Highway
3x Minion Tap
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Tomb of Rameses III
2x Toreador Grand Ball
2x Vessel
Action (5)
4x Blood Hunt
1x Revelations
Political Action (9)
7x Anathema
1x Ancient Influence
1x Archon
Equipment (11)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
2x Leather Jacket
2x Sniper Rifle
Action Modifier (2)
1x Aire of Elation
1x Awe
Reaction (20)
4x Eagle's Sight
3x Enhanced Senses
4x Quicken Sight
9x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (26)
9x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
7x Sideslip
5x Taste of Vitae
Combo (2)
2x Scalpel Tongue
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:13:34)
Deck Name: Cold Winter's Hold: Masika, Prince of Lisbon
Author: Pedro Luís
Description:
"Cold Winter's Hold"
Lisbon, Portugal
Januay 17, 2009
15 players
Wall Toreador G1/2 with guns
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=9)
=============================================
2x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
3x Masika 10 AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
Library (83 cards)
==================
Master (18)
1x Archon Investigation
2x Art Museum
4x Blood Doll
1x Direct Intervention
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Giant's Blood
4x Minion Tap
2x Rack, The
1x Society Hunting Ground
Action (1)
1x Aranthebes, The Immortal
Political Action (2)
1x Ancient Influence
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (7)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Sire's Index Finger
Retainer (2)
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Tasha Morgan
Reaction (20)
3x My Enemy's Enemy
2x Quicken Sight
9x Second Tradition: Domain
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (33)
8x Blur
7x Flash
3x Preternatural Evasion
6x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:15:13)
Deck Name: Diversity: Gothy Pants Blocks
Author: James Messer
Description:
Diversity: Columbus
Columbus, Ohio
June 25th 2008
25 players
2R + F
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=9)
=============================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (13)
2x Art Museum
4x Blood Doll
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Rack, The
1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
1x Society Hunting Ground
1x Tension in the Ranks
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (7)
4x Enchant Kindred
1x Imperial Decree
2x Nose of the Hound
Political Action (2)
1x Ancient Influence
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
Reaction (25)
2x Enhanced Senses
1x On the Qui Vive
3x Quicken Sight
12x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Spirit's Touch
4x Telepathic Misdirection
1x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Combat (33)
2x Aura Reading
4x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
3x Flash
2x Majesty
3x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
2x Sideslip
4x Taste of Vitae
Combo (3)
3x Resist Earth's Grasp
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:16:34)
Deck Name: Czech ECQ 2012 - Guns N' Roses
Author: David Sniegoň
Description:
Czech ECQ 2012
Ostrava
22.9.2012
17 players attending
David Sniegoň
About deck- block. block, block.... work on poolgain, try to get magnum on Ira as fast as you can and keep rack/vessel/montreal for pools... its good idea to put rack+2 vessel on Yvette/Sabrina and just stand and block and gain pools... well worked for me perfectly
Changes for future:
-1 From a Sinking Ship
-1 Fourth Cycle
+1 Target Vitals
+1 Smiling Jack
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=7 avg=5.33)
===============================================
1x Greta Kircher 7 obf AUS CEL PRE !Toreador:2
4x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Sabrina 4 aus cel pre !Toreador:3
1x Sheila Mezarin 6 cel for AUS PRE !Toreador:2
2x Victoria 5 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
2x Yvette, The Hopeless 3 aus cel Toreador:3
1x Zöe 3 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (18)
1x Direct Intervention
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x From a Sinking Ship
1x Giant's Blood
1x KRCG News Radio
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
2x Powerbase: Montreal
2x Rack, The
2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
5x Vessel
Event (1)
1x Fourth Cycle, The
Equipment (7)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Ivory Bow
Reaction (37)
4x Eagle's Sight
3x Enhanced Senses
4x Eyes of Argus
4x Forced Awakening
6x On the Qui Vive
2x Precognition
6x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (27)
2x Aura Reading
2x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
7x Psyche!
3x Side Strike
2x Sideslip
1x Target Vitals
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:17:33)
Deck Name: Gun Control (Means Hitting the Target)
Author: Otso Saariluoma
Description:
Lärvälauantai
Sonera-talo, Tampere, Finland
April 28, 2012
21 players
3R+F
CEL GUN princes with Infernal Pursuit. The deck builds on previous versions by Erik, Hugh, and Adam. In retrospect, I'd add a few Infernal Pursuits and change the 1-caps for something useful.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=1 max=10 avg=6.25)
================================================
1x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Antoinette DuChamp 1 cel pre Caitiff:2
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Nik 1 cel Caitiff:1
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (75 cards)
==================
Master (35)
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
4x Haven Uncovered
2x Information Highway
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
6x Villein
1x Wider View
6x Zillah's Valley
Event (2)
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
1x Dragonbound
Action (2)
2x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
2x Parity Shift
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (6)
6x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (22)
1x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
5x Infernal Pursuit
4x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:19:03)
Deck Name: Imperator: Don Cruez's Resurrection
Author: Hugh Angseesing
Description:
Imperator
Burton-on-trent, United Kingdom
February 25, 2012
13 players
2R + F
Used 25/02/2012
loosely based on the Toreador master gun decks flying about -
it's supposed to have New Carthage in to assist the ousting but I forgot 3r, 2r, 3f - Anson + Ashurs + gun combat = success
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=5 max=11 avg=8)
=============================================
1x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Constanza Vinti 8 CEL DOM POT Brujah:2
1x Don Cruez, The Idealist 10 ani dom pro CEL POT PRE Brujah:1
1x Dónal O'Connor 8 CEL DOM POT Brujah:2
1x Theo Bell 7 cel dom pre POT Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (84 cards)
==================
Master (36)
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
4x Haven Uncovered
2x Information Highway
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Monastery of Shadows
2x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
7x Villein
5x Zillah's Valley
Event (2)
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
1x Dragonbound
Action (4)
1x Big Game
3x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
1x Anarchist Uprising
1x Reins of Power
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (9)
3x Deflection
6x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (25)
1x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
8x Infernal Pursuit
4x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:22:16)
Deck Name: Las Vegas NAC Qualifier 2011: Ira
Author: David Tatu
Description:
Las Vegas North American Qualifier 2011
Las Vegas, NV (USA)
March 19th, 2011
23 players
3R+F
Deck Author: Matt Guinn, modified by David Tatu
Matt Guinn gave me this deck that he won Guide and Mentor: Atlanta with last month. I made a few changes but the cards I put in never saw play or did not make any difference during the event. So his original version is probably better. It is a very good deck, much stronger than what I typically build and play and it was a lot of gun to run. Thanks Matt for the deck and thanks to Kevin for another great event in Las Vegas. Wish we did not have to wait another year for the next one.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=11 avg=7)
=============================================
1x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
5x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Isabel de Leon 3 AUS Toreador:2
1x Madame Guil 10 for pot ser AUS CEL PRE Toreador:3
1x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Michael Luther 4 aus pre Toreador:3
1x Zöe 3 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (25)
1x Art Museum
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Bleeding the Vine
3x Blood Doll
1x Life Boon
1x Papillon
2x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Rack, The
3x Villein
1x Wash
Event (1)
1x Uncoiling, The
Action (2)
2x Fleetness
Equipment (7)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Kevlar Vest
1x Sniper Rifle
Retainer (1)
1x Owl Companion
Action Modifier (3)
2x Aire of Elation
1x Crocodile's Tongue
Reaction (31)
5x Eagle's Sight
6x Eyes of Argus
3x Forced Awakening
1x My Enemy's Enemy
2x On the Qui Vive
6x Quicken Sight
3x Second Tradition: Domain
5x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (20)
1x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
2x Flash
3x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
1x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:23:26)
Deck Name: Princes & Pistols
Author: Martin "Hroch" Miller
Description:
Tournament winning deck Prague March 4 2012, 18 participants. 3GW.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=8 avg=6.17)
===============================================
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Black Cat 5 pot pre CEL Brujah:1
1x Jimmy Dunn 4 for CEL POT Pander:2
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
1x Victor Tolliver 4 pot CEL !Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (80 cards)
==================
Master (23)
9x Ashur Tablets
3x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
2x Haven Uncovered
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Tension in the Ranks
2x Vessel
3x Villein
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (7)
7x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
2x Parity Shift
Equipment (7)
7x .44 Magnum
Ally (1)
1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
Reaction (7)
7x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (32)
3x Blur
7x Concealed Weapon
1x Fast Hands
7x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
3x Sideslip
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:26:24)
Deck Name: Origins 2004 Sunday Constructed: The Blockinator
Author: Ben Peal
Description:
Origins Sunday
Sunday, June 27, 2004
Columbus, Ohio
18 players
Group 1-2 AUS-CEL Toreador Princes with Concealed .44's and a big pile of intercept, untap, and Celerity cards. All the Princes (save for Volker) have +1 bleed, so there's built-in ousting power once you've gotten your prey's vampires smushed. The Rack, Art Museum, Hunting Ground, and a wad of Blood Dolls provide a solid pool-gaining infrastructure.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=10 avg=7.17)
================================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Colin Flynn 3 aus cel Toreador:1
1x Dorian Strack 4 cel AUS Toreador:1
1x Felicia Mostrom 5 pre AUS CEL Toreador:1
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Kallista, Master Sculptor 6 pre pro AUS CEL Toreador:1
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Tatiana Romanov 7 cel pre AUS Toreador:1
1x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (89 cards)
==================
Master (12)
1x Art Museum
1x Barrens, The
6x Blood Doll
1x Rack, The
1x Society Hunting Ground
2x Sudden Reversal
Political Action (1)
1x Parity Shift
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (44)
5x Eagle's Sight
4x Enhanced Senses
10x Forced Awakening
5x Precognition
5x Quicken Sight
6x Second Tradition: Domain
3x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (26)
2x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
6x Pursuit
6x Side Strike
6x Sideslip
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:28:10)
Deck Name: Great Lakes Qualifier 2004: Toreador Princes with Guns
Author: Jay Kristoff
Description:
Great Lakes Qualifier
Glen Ellyn, Illinois
April 17, 2004
48 players
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=8.75)
================================================
2x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
5x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
2x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Klaus van der Veken 9 aus obf tha CEL PRE Toreador:2
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (20)
2x Art Museum
1x Barrens, The
3x Blood Doll
1x Club Zombie
1x Depravity
1x Direct Intervention
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Guardian Angel
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
2x Slave Auction
1x Society Hunting Ground
1x Storage Annex
Action (5)
1x Blood Hunt
2x Entrancement
2x Nose of the Hound
Political Action (7)
1x Anarchist Uprising
1x Ancilla Empowerment
2x Archon
1x Kindred Restructure
1x Parity Shift
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Sire's Index Finger
Reaction (12)
10x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (40)
1x Amaranth
6x Blur
4x Concealed Weapon
1x Fast Hands
4x Flash
5x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
1x Riposte
6x Sideslip
6x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:29:21)
Deck Name: Wake with Evening's Freshness: Guns + CEL + THA
Author: Cory Busch-Kendall
Description:
Wake with Evening's Freshness
Columbus, Ohio
November 15, 2009
18 players
2R + F
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=10 avg=8.17)
================================================
3x Anastasz di Zagreb 8 ani cel dom AUS THA Tremere:3
2x Erichtho 8 cel obf AUS DOM THA Tremere:3
1x Father Juan Carlos 6 aus cel pot tha PRE !Brujah:4
1x Fleurdumal 8 cel tha AUS DEM PRE Toreador:3
1x Lin Jun 4 aus cel pre tha Toreador:4
4x Lucas Halton 10 qui AUS CEL DOM THA Tremere:3
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (10)
4x Blood Doll
2x Celerity
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Minion Tap
2x Thaumaturgy
Action (15)
2x Ambush
1x Bum's Rush
5x Govern the Unaligned
3x Harass
1x Magic of the Smith
1x Nose of the Hound
2x Rutor's Hand
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
Reaction (14)
4x On the Qui Vive
6x Redirection
4x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (45)
5x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
3x Flash
7x Psyche!
11x Pursuit
14x Theft of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:34:47)
No second trad
I've included this deck because it's a TWD that is NOT the archetype I'm covering, but the support cast can operate like this deck in most Second Trad Guns decks. It's far from ideal, especially with Anson decks as you choke on Masters, but I've taken tables with a lineup of Volker and some celerity chumps, even after Volker bit the dust. Parmenides is a risky guy, but Rush with 2 hands and additional strikes is enough to put several problems away, especially if they're foolish enough to think DotB is a safe play because you “probably “ dont have pursuit in hand.
Deck Name: Art of Memory: CEL Guns
Author: Iñaki Jimenez (RedVenom)
Description:
Vitoria, Spain
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=5 avg=4.5)
==============================================
1x Brachah 5 for CEL PRE Brujah:2
1x Dodd 5 dom pre CEL !Brujah:2
1x Jimmy Dunn 4 for CEL POT Pander:2
1x Parmenides 4 qui CEL Assamite:2
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
1x Scarlet Carson O'Toole 4 pro CEL !Gangrel:3
1x Skryta Zyleta 5 obf pot pro CEL !Gangrel:3
1x Steve Booth 5 pot pre pro CEL Brujah:3
1x Victor Revell, Loyalist 5 aus dem pre CEL !Toreador:2
1x Victor Tolliver 4 pot CEL !Brujah:2
1x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
1x Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut 5 aus obf qui CEL Assamite:2
Library (80 cards)
==================
Master (11)
6x Blood Doll
2x Fame
2x Frontal Assault
1x Tension in the Ranks
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (10)
10x Bum's Rush
Equipment (8)
8x .44 Magnum
Combat (50)
6x Blur
8x Concealed Weapon
5x Flash
10x Psyche!
8x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
5x Sideslip
6x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:37:18)
So, here's one of my Favorite Archetypes, Second Trad
guns.
This Archtype focuses on utilizing princes with
to provide a combat wall that is relatively robust .This is seldom the entire way to victory, and what flavors the deck is the other components that enable strategies outside of waiting to take the table at the 3 way.
Crypt:
Warning: Spoiler!
Most viable second trad celerity guns decks use group 2 in addition to 1or3. Why? Currently, the most efficient
prince is Volker. At capacity 5, and sporting a barely relevant drawback, he is the ideal supporter for 7-8 pool worth of your main prince. Additionally, while 4caps exist in nearly all groupings, the niche of 3 cap is filled solely by Sarah Brando, and investing 3 pool into a vamp to chump bleed or play a carded rush is easier than 4 pool, especially considering the 2 extra pool for a 44.Of course, groups 2&3 have solid 4 caps, Jimmy Dunn and Victor Toliver in 2, Scarlet, and Parmenides, and the 3 relevant groups have 5 caps with
to add in support or whatever if needed.But the deck isn't much a blocker without another prince (or justicar I guess) and typically who you pick to be your primary vamp determines most of the strategy:
Ira is the least pool intense at 7, with card cycling and additional intercept against political actions to boot. Splashing
frequently happens with him at the helm or involved at all, giving access to bounce and eyes of argus. Support vamps like Zoe and isabel de leon show up helping him often to utilize the added . He is himself support in Torrie builds using villon and othe group 2 fatties with Alexandra, although this build and ones using Halton and Guil are less popular post KoT. Why?Anson: his special was never useless, but after Ashur Tablets became an option, Anson got great in AAA decks that played out like Girls decks as well as second trad guns using them. The basics of the deck use Anson and group 2 support (often including at least one 8 cap prince) then using masters galore with him and small amounts of
to assert yourself and often get vps before the 3 way(where you win).But that's the least brutal build. Infernal pursuit, Liquidation, Anthelios were all options before the latters ban, but the more controllable (if card intensive) IF is still quite viable, and with no nerf on tablets, liquidation is still quite viable.
Anson also has
and while not common, is capable of being ran with Euro Bru princes.Anneke- so, she is without a doubt her own archetype in some cases but technically crosses into second trad guns unless you find a build without second tradition. She has in clans at SUP and
(so overlaps with Anson and the Eurobru cast) . She shines with the built in Eagles sight, and can run with Anson support as well as Marcellus and Villon. Her standing plus bleed helps motivate people to block her, and unlike Marcellus she could throw Aire of Elation, also a good motivator to block.The others- theres one deck on this list using a smattering of fatties with
/ and and another one running fatties in general. The inherent advantage is you get more consistent votes, fatter minions for your fatty favoring political actions, and you don't have to worry about contesting Anson.Basics of play:
Warning: Spoiler!
You need out a prince to play. Most builds get your Ira/Anson and then want Volker prior to support weenies.
You want to get pool back too, but how you do it depends on your deck. PB monty/Art museum get a little bit for you, but remember you will be paying for 2 to 3 44s early on, so dont overspend.
Speaking of, many decks run princes, especially Anson. You may be better off displaying what you do by moving cards than trying to explain you aren't a AAA girls deck. Let's say your predator bleeds with Kindred spirits or your prey governs down; blocking with a second trad and then conceal->44-> shooting them a few times sends 3 messages loud and clear: you're playing a celerity guns second trad deck. You have some capacity to remove minions at your leisure (and who really wants to find out how much red is in the deck?) , and you don't intend to be letting them do whatever that action is very frequently. If the situation warrants torping their minion, cool, but its normally better leaving them above ground and low on beads. Ideally, you've villeined or minion tapped beads and you managed to taste back 4 ish beads during this altercation.
Your early and midgame is basically rushing and blocking if you need to, and continuously bleeding for 1 or 2 with 2 to 3 minions a turn as long as its practical. You may be seated perfectly and get a game dunk on an aggressive prey and oust them. It's just as likely that your forward pressure is diminished by an aggressive predator that you back rush with your
weenies.Either way, you're a combat wall, so limiting your crazy until the 3 way is fine; in Anson+Ashurs builds you're going to scoop back 13 cards, many of which will be red anyway, so you're fights can be more card intensive if need be.
Now, once one oust happens, estimate who falls next, so you can plan your GW from the resulting 3 way. If it helps you more to be with one deck gone over another, know that you want to achieve that. Also know that if you have 0 vps at the 3 way you have to take both remaining vps in most situations. In a final, where seeding is king, know who you can afford to let live into the midgame before you sit down.
As long as you have reasonable blocking and combat capabilities, and aren't at 30min or less remaining upon entering a 3 player game, you should be able to come out ahead. Of course, possessing pool generating masters (rack/papillon with BD/vessel, Monty, art museum, etc) helps, as does Jack/fame hitting the table while you take a pool or 2 a turn. Knowing what not to rush or block is key; 2 other people have the same goal as you, and you want them against each other, not just you. Pretending you possess only the means to not die but can't oust isn't easy at this point, but it's where you want the table to see you.
Typically your prey getting wrecked by your predator wont happen as often as vice versa, but whoever's better off, if it's your prey, remove a key minion they needed to oust, then remove thier pool from the table. Ideally, if the 3 way went right, the last oust will be like killing a cockroach you helped make unkillable, but you should be able to remove whichever resources keep them alive then put them away.
Or, the whole thing will barely work, but remember that you need to win the 3 way and life is better.
Hazards:
Warning: Spoiler!
Grapple Combat:
Unless you suck or your deck hates you, its mathematically likely you outmaneuver
grapple combat. They throw stuff and run slam, but you will average 2 manuevers to thier 1 or 0.Exceptions: Tupdogs run set range to close. This means Disengage matters if they're expected. You can always hands 1 a bunch, but unless you throw off thier flow with diablery, you're in trouble.
Count Germaine- no guns work on him, he rushes torries and merged he gets standing plus bleed. Hope he's not your starting predator or prey and hope hes gone by 3 way. If not, his supporters aren't as unkillable, hes pentexable, and I guess you can contest fame for an oust? It's not easy, to say the least.
most animalism combat run crows and DotB as pres, then aid from bats to long, you take 1 from strike, 2 crows, 1 DotB. If they do this, you have 2strength, so use your manuevers to get up close and rearrange their face a bit with your additional strikes, using Psyche to press. This drops most weenie as well as girls builds often. Lucian the perfect is taxing, but Ira/Anson have enough blood to do it.If they don't DotB, great, shoot them, lots. The real danger is the 2 pool hit if they Canine Horde your gun, so if they're acting let them strike first, and dont manuever off the 44. 1 damage doesn't matter if they hands, and
sideslip saves your gun. This means blocking deep song rushes. Most decks run 2 or less Hordes, so that's a blessing. Also, Sires index finger stops DotB and Deep songs, if needed.The new Gal: Matasuntha is brutal, and has several ways to wreck your day. Her hands are more dangerous than a 44, she earth melds, psyches, manuevers, generates additional strikes, has several different carded rushes… Pentex her or hope her owner only has masters and bounce in hand. Also, her support cast isn't as dangerous as her, and make good fame targets.
Other things hurt, so saving DI for kids of Ra isn't a bad plan, but a bad opening hand/crypt draw is the bane of many decks staring down powerbleed.
Masters:
Warning: Spoiler!
Tension and fame are solid, as you seldom dont choose who goes down. Pool gain is critical, PBmonty, minion tap/villein, etc, and a plethora of other things depending on the deck, such as Tablets, Pentex,art museum, Ball, Jack, etc. DI is probably worth including in most builds.
Monestary is strong in modern builds, as is Papillon (you typically have 2 princes on deck, why not, especially with Ira and Volker saving pool).
Zillahs/Tomb o Ramses are just as justified in these 10cap decks as others, understandably.
TheRack is traditionally viable here, often paired with blood management like vessel and blood doll.
AI is useful, especially if not packing bounce.
Sudden and Wash are not uncommon, but bleeding the vine is typically too pool intensive.
Action:
Warning: Spoiler!
Rushes, frequently just BR. In
using builds, nose of the hound is a great choice, but having Sarah and Volker unable to use it hurts a bit.Ambush and Harass are not ideal, Big Game has been done. Really, the no dredraw sucks, but the manuever is great; 1 from card, 1 from gun gets you away from most grapples, and you run pursuit in quantities where you draw it routinely.
Political actions are common, Parity shift is easily justified in most builds. Enchant is solid in low numbers in Anson and Anneke. Political Stranglehold, Ancient Influence, Reins of Power are all strong for the fatter builds, but since you for sure have princes, many modern builds run at least a single P-Shift.
Combat:
Warning: Spoiler!
Pursuit, manuever to keep harm away, additional strike to put harm where you want it, no blood cost. Very much the red card you like here.
Psyche, to start new combats and get to use inherent 44 manuever again, so pressing isnt ideal, but still is useful to counter other presses in a bind, or continue hands beatdowns in very cornercase situations.
concealed weapon, because this is how you get 44s out without wasting an action. Getting out the gun in combat is crucial to keeping up bleeds of one or 2 so you dont have a defensive mode grandprey, bloated prey, and severely unbalanced table. Even a “friendly rush” to move cards and equip a gun isn't a bad idea, If it makes sense with table conditions, and typically early game it does. Ratio of conceal to 44 should be 1:1 or 1:1(+1) taste. Which is typically 6conceal:6gun, or 7 gun, sliding up or down for deck size.
Taste, because you will be losing beads in combat and be turning them into pool. It's ok though, because 3-4 tastes is typically plentiful to “permanently borrow beads from Vamps belonging to the person in the seats next to you.
A few sideslip, not too crazy, but it's hard to stay good at blocking when an ivory bow plows through every minion you have. Its also a just good to be able to dodge things if you have to and not run other cards to do so.
a few blur, again nothing crazy, but 2to4 is typically 1 blood spent to remove 4, with typically 6ish to taste.
Fast hands and flash are used, but honestly ones too niche and flash isn't ever better than a psyche or pursuit unless you're already in trouble. Fast hands is a junky win more card, I stole a flamethrower once with LOTS of table talk, but I've never seen the stars align to justify this cards inclusion. The great players who use it run 1, which should be telling. Flash is not trash, per se, but presses aren't desirable if this deck is working. Psyche resets the combat, netting another maneuver off the 44. Pursuit is a manuever, or that other 2r damage, which is all you're guaranteed to try for is you use flash to press to continue. It doesn't justify inclusion like psyche, pursuit, sideslip, or taste.
Disengage is not terrible, it became needed when Tupdogs reined.
Infernal Pursuit in applicable builds.
Target Vitals isn't bad, but additional pursuits generally yield similar results. In games where opposition prevents with
using aim cards on additional strikes when your initial strike doesn't get a superior RwtP is viable, but not by any means ideal.Reaction:
Warning: Spoiler!
Second trad. Period.
Add auspex bounce and eyes of argus, the occasional quicken sight if needed.
Prior to eyes of argus, other auspex was typically used, but the auxiliary effects such as a manuever or preventing a damage are typically not needed since you run red cards to do the same things, and the wake from EoA or its 2 intercept at basic make it typically a choice that keeps players alive longer.
Equipment
Warning: Spoiler!
See combat for 44 conceal basics. Hard equipping in a deck that doesn't have multiact outs you at a disadvantage, so while Kevlar vests, Bowls, Hearts are far from useless, card flow aligns with concealing out a 44. 2R damage and a manuever to get you away from scary
and nonsense pairs with your rather basic but effective cards (all 4 of them…) and the synergy created by this justifies the decks combat with little more than unlock plus intercept from second trad.Modifiers:
Warning: Spoiler!
Not a requirement, but Aire of Elation fills in the lack of forward pressure issue combat walls get.
Resist Earths grasp is sometimes used, but the blood cost makes it rough in some builds.
Hypothetically, Zephyr is ok here, as it immediately untaps after a blocked bleed or rush, leaving you poised for the other. It's not a great card, but here its playable.
Other toys:
Carlton is easy to justify, Aranthebes, Scourge of the Enochians, Dragonbound, Bowl of convergence… there are options.
The future of the archetype:
Warning: Spoiler!
The strongest recent cards that boosted the archetype are from KoT, in the form of Ashur Tablets. Subsequent bans of Anthelios and Lilith's Blessing are a small drawback, but had some impact on Anson builds.
The crypts are still Anchored to early groupings by nature of limited
princes that justify the deck and no 5 cap prince.Additionally, Vasily is the most promising candidate in groups 4-5 along with 7 cap Karen. But Carlack is the natural 3rd prince, and his title contests with Vasily. None of them have a great text box like Anson or Ira, so while not out of the question, they're not as good as IRA and Volker, AND lack a 3 cap with
.BC has Rebekah and Mark Decker that have
and are princes. Rebekah and Eurobru could EASILY be a possibility, but until more cam sets, this archetype is rooted to its support to to guy, Volker. (KoT torries support Dominate but not guns…)Having said that, it's a very easy archetype to learn combat with, so here's hoping for more support into the future.
High tier decklists:
Second trad guns
Warning: Spoiler!
This is a smattering of different flavors, not a best of or most viable list.
Deck Name: Not Dead Yet!: Rich Rod's Angry Dragon
Author: Brad Cashdollar
Description:
"Not Dead Yet!"
Flint, Michigan
February 27, 2011
26 players
2R + F
Brad Cashdollar's Tournament Winning Deck
Deck Name: Rich Rod's Angry Dragon
Author: Brad Cashdollar
Description: nosey Toreadors that shoot people ... a lot
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=10 avg=8.25)
================================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Dorian Strack 4 cel AUS Toreador:1
1x Felicia Mostrom 5 pre AUS CEL Toreador:1
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Kallista, Master Sculptor 6 pre pro AUS CEL Toreador:1
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (10)
1x Art Museum
1x Dark Influences
1x Monastery of Shadows
1x Papillon
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Rack, The
4x Vessel
Equipment (8)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
Reaction (42)
4x Eagle's Sight
4x Enhanced Senses
4x Eyes of Argus
10x Forced Awakening
4x Quicken Sight
6x Second Tradition: Domain
4x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (30)
4x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
6x Pursuit
6x Side Strike
6x Sideslip
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:07:57)
Deck Name: 3rd Annual Blood Runs Cold: Fran and Alex
Author: Jim Miller
Description:
The Plaza Bowl, Virginia, MN. 2+F, constructed
The Tournament Winning Deck with 4 VPs on the final table
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=7 max=11 avg=9.5)
===============================================
3x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Fleurdumal 8 cel tha AUS DEM PRE Toreador:3
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Lucas Halton 10 qui AUS CEL DOM THA Tremere:3
1x Madame Guil 10 for pot ser AUS CEL PRE Toreador:3
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (15)
1x Art Museum
1x Blood Doll
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
2x Grooming the Protégé
1x Information Highway
3x Minion Tap
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Tomb of Rameses III
2x Toreador Grand Ball
2x Vessel
Action (5)
4x Blood Hunt
1x Revelations
Political Action (9)
7x Anathema
1x Ancient Influence
1x Archon
Equipment (11)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
2x Leather Jacket
2x Sniper Rifle
Action Modifier (2)
1x Aire of Elation
1x Awe
Reaction (20)
4x Eagle's Sight
3x Enhanced Senses
4x Quicken Sight
9x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (26)
9x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
7x Sideslip
5x Taste of Vitae
Combo (2)
2x Scalpel Tongue
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:13:34)
Deck Name: Cold Winter's Hold: Masika, Prince of Lisbon
Author: Pedro Luís
Description:
"Cold Winter's Hold"
Lisbon, Portugal
Januay 17, 2009
15 players
Wall Toreador G1/2 with guns
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=9)
=============================================
2x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
3x Masika 10 AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
Library (83 cards)
==================
Master (18)
1x Archon Investigation
2x Art Museum
4x Blood Doll
1x Direct Intervention
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Giant's Blood
4x Minion Tap
2x Rack, The
1x Society Hunting Ground
Action (1)
1x Aranthebes, The Immortal
Political Action (2)
1x Ancient Influence
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (7)
6x .44 Magnum
1x Sire's Index Finger
Retainer (2)
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Tasha Morgan
Reaction (20)
3x My Enemy's Enemy
2x Quicken Sight
9x Second Tradition: Domain
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (33)
8x Blur
7x Flash
3x Preternatural Evasion
6x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:15:13)
Deck Name: Diversity: Gothy Pants Blocks
Author: James Messer
Description:
Diversity: Columbus
Columbus, Ohio
June 25th 2008
25 players
2R + F
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=9)
=============================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
3x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
3x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (13)
2x Art Museum
4x Blood Doll
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Rack, The
1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
1x Society Hunting Ground
1x Tension in the Ranks
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (7)
4x Enchant Kindred
1x Imperial Decree
2x Nose of the Hound
Political Action (2)
1x Ancient Influence
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
Reaction (25)
2x Enhanced Senses
1x On the Qui Vive
3x Quicken Sight
12x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Spirit's Touch
4x Telepathic Misdirection
1x Wake with Evening's Freshness
Combat (33)
2x Aura Reading
4x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
3x Flash
2x Majesty
3x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
2x Sideslip
4x Taste of Vitae
Combo (3)
3x Resist Earth's Grasp
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:16:34)
Deck Name: Czech ECQ 2012 - Guns N' Roses
Author: David Sniegoň
Description:
Czech ECQ 2012
Ostrava
22.9.2012
17 players attending
David Sniegoň
About deck- block. block, block.... work on poolgain, try to get magnum on Ira as fast as you can and keep rack/vessel/montreal for pools... its good idea to put rack+2 vessel on Yvette/Sabrina and just stand and block and gain pools... well worked for me perfectly
Changes for future:
-1 From a Sinking Ship
-1 Fourth Cycle
+1 Target Vitals
+1 Smiling Jack
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=7 avg=5.33)
===============================================
1x Greta Kircher 7 obf AUS CEL PRE !Toreador:2
4x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Sabrina 4 aus cel pre !Toreador:3
1x Sheila Mezarin 6 cel for AUS PRE !Toreador:2
2x Victoria 5 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
2x Yvette, The Hopeless 3 aus cel Toreador:3
1x Zöe 3 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (18)
1x Direct Intervention
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x From a Sinking Ship
1x Giant's Blood
1x KRCG News Radio
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
2x Powerbase: Montreal
2x Rack, The
2x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
5x Vessel
Event (1)
1x Fourth Cycle, The
Equipment (7)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Ivory Bow
Reaction (37)
4x Eagle's Sight
3x Enhanced Senses
4x Eyes of Argus
4x Forced Awakening
6x On the Qui Vive
2x Precognition
6x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (27)
2x Aura Reading
2x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
7x Psyche!
3x Side Strike
2x Sideslip
1x Target Vitals
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:17:33)
Deck Name: Gun Control (Means Hitting the Target)
Author: Otso Saariluoma
Description:
Lärvälauantai
Sonera-talo, Tampere, Finland
April 28, 2012
21 players
3R+F
CEL GUN princes with Infernal Pursuit. The deck builds on previous versions by Erik, Hugh, and Adam. In retrospect, I'd add a few Infernal Pursuits and change the 1-caps for something useful.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=1 max=10 avg=6.25)
================================================
1x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Antoinette DuChamp 1 cel pre Caitiff:2
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Nik 1 cel Caitiff:1
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (75 cards)
==================
Master (35)
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
4x Haven Uncovered
2x Information Highway
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
6x Villein
1x Wider View
6x Zillah's Valley
Event (2)
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
1x Dragonbound
Action (2)
2x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
2x Parity Shift
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (6)
6x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (22)
1x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
5x Infernal Pursuit
4x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:19:03)
Deck Name: Imperator: Don Cruez's Resurrection
Author: Hugh Angseesing
Description:
Imperator
Burton-on-trent, United Kingdom
February 25, 2012
13 players
2R + F
Used 25/02/2012
loosely based on the Toreador master gun decks flying about -
it's supposed to have New Carthage in to assist the ousting but I forgot 3r, 2r, 3f - Anson + Ashurs + gun combat = success
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=5 max=11 avg=8)
=============================================
1x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Constanza Vinti 8 CEL DOM POT Brujah:2
1x Don Cruez, The Idealist 10 ani dom pro CEL POT PRE Brujah:1
1x Dónal O'Connor 8 CEL DOM POT Brujah:2
1x Theo Bell 7 cel dom pre POT Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (84 cards)
==================
Master (36)
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
4x Haven Uncovered
2x Information Highway
1x Lilith's Blessing
1x Monastery of Shadows
2x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
7x Villein
5x Zillah's Valley
Event (2)
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
1x Dragonbound
Action (4)
1x Big Game
3x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
1x Anarchist Uprising
1x Reins of Power
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (9)
3x Deflection
6x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (25)
1x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
8x Infernal Pursuit
4x Psyche!
4x Pursuit
2x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:22:16)
Deck Name: Las Vegas NAC Qualifier 2011: Ira
Author: David Tatu
Description:
Las Vegas North American Qualifier 2011
Las Vegas, NV (USA)
March 19th, 2011
23 players
3R+F
Deck Author: Matt Guinn, modified by David Tatu
Matt Guinn gave me this deck that he won Guide and Mentor: Atlanta with last month. I made a few changes but the cards I put in never saw play or did not make any difference during the event. So his original version is probably better. It is a very good deck, much stronger than what I typically build and play and it was a lot of gun to run. Thanks Matt for the deck and thanks to Kevin for another great event in Las Vegas. Wish we did not have to wait another year for the next one.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=11 avg=7)
=============================================
1x Alexandra 11 dom ANI AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
5x Ira Rivers 7 ani pre AUS CEL Toreador:3
1x Isabel de Leon 3 AUS Toreador:2
1x Madame Guil 10 for pot ser AUS CEL PRE Toreador:3
1x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Michael Luther 4 aus pre Toreador:3
1x Zöe 3 cel obf AUS Malkavian:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (25)
1x Art Museum
9x Ashur Tablets
1x Bleeding the Vine
3x Blood Doll
1x Life Boon
1x Papillon
2x Parthenon, The
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Rack, The
3x Villein
1x Wash
Event (1)
1x Uncoiling, The
Action (2)
2x Fleetness
Equipment (7)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Kevlar Vest
1x Sniper Rifle
Retainer (1)
1x Owl Companion
Action Modifier (3)
2x Aire of Elation
1x Crocodile's Tongue
Reaction (31)
5x Eagle's Sight
6x Eyes of Argus
3x Forced Awakening
1x My Enemy's Enemy
2x On the Qui Vive
6x Quicken Sight
3x Second Tradition: Domain
5x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (20)
1x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
2x Flash
3x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
1x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:23:26)
Deck Name: Princes & Pistols
Author: Martin "Hroch" Miller
Description:
Tournament winning deck Prague March 4 2012, 18 participants. 3GW.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=8 avg=6.17)
===============================================
4x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Black Cat 5 pot pre CEL Brujah:1
1x Jimmy Dunn 4 for CEL POT Pander:2
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
1x Victor Tolliver 4 pot CEL !Brujah:2
2x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (80 cards)
==================
Master (23)
9x Ashur Tablets
3x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
2x Haven Uncovered
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Tension in the Ranks
2x Vessel
3x Villein
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (7)
7x Bum's Rush
Political Action (2)
2x Parity Shift
Equipment (7)
7x .44 Magnum
Ally (1)
1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
Reaction (7)
7x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (32)
3x Blur
7x Concealed Weapon
1x Fast Hands
7x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
3x Sideslip
5x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:26:24)
Deck Name: Origins 2004 Sunday Constructed: The Blockinator
Author: Ben Peal
Description:
Origins Sunday
Sunday, June 27, 2004
Columbus, Ohio
18 players
Group 1-2 AUS-CEL Toreador Princes with Concealed .44's and a big pile of intercept, untap, and Celerity cards. All the Princes (save for Volker) have +1 bleed, so there's built-in ousting power once you've gotten your prey's vampires smushed. The Rack, Art Museum, Hunting Ground, and a wad of Blood Dolls provide a solid pool-gaining infrastructure.
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=10 avg=7.17)
================================================
3x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
1x Colin Flynn 3 aus cel Toreador:1
1x Dorian Strack 4 cel AUS Toreador:1
1x Felicia Mostrom 5 pre AUS CEL Toreador:1
1x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Kallista, Master Sculptor 6 pre pro AUS CEL Toreador:1
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
1x Tatiana Romanov 7 cel pre AUS Toreador:1
1x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
Library (89 cards)
==================
Master (12)
1x Art Museum
1x Barrens, The
6x Blood Doll
1x Rack, The
1x Society Hunting Ground
2x Sudden Reversal
Political Action (1)
1x Parity Shift
Equipment (6)
6x .44 Magnum
Reaction (44)
5x Eagle's Sight
4x Enhanced Senses
10x Forced Awakening
5x Precognition
5x Quicken Sight
6x Second Tradition: Domain
3x Spirit's Touch
6x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (26)
2x Blur
6x Concealed Weapon
6x Pursuit
6x Side Strike
6x Sideslip
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:28:10)
Deck Name: Great Lakes Qualifier 2004: Toreador Princes with Guns
Author: Jay Kristoff
Description:
Great Lakes Qualifier
Glen Ellyn, Illinois
April 17, 2004
48 players
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=8 max=10 avg=8.75)
================================================
2x Anneke 10 dom AUS CEL PRE Toreador:1
5x Anson 8 aus dom CEL PRE Toreador:1
2x François Villon 10 chi obf pot AUS CEL PRE Toreador:2
1x Klaus van der Veken 9 aus obf tha CEL PRE Toreador:2
2x Marcellus 8 pro AUS CEL Toreador:2
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (20)
2x Art Museum
1x Barrens, The
3x Blood Doll
1x Club Zombie
1x Depravity
1x Direct Intervention
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Fame
1x Giant's Blood
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Guardian Angel
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
2x Slave Auction
1x Society Hunting Ground
1x Storage Annex
Action (5)
1x Blood Hunt
2x Entrancement
2x Nose of the Hound
Political Action (7)
1x Anarchist Uprising
1x Ancilla Empowerment
2x Archon
1x Kindred Restructure
1x Parity Shift
1x Political Stranglehold
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Sire's Index Finger
Reaction (12)
10x Second Tradition: Domain
2x Telepathic Misdirection
Combat (40)
1x Amaranth
6x Blur
4x Concealed Weapon
1x Fast Hands
4x Flash
5x Psyche!
6x Pursuit
1x Riposte
6x Sideslip
6x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:29:21)
Deck Name: Wake with Evening's Freshness: Guns + CEL + THA
Author: Cory Busch-Kendall
Description:
Wake with Evening's Freshness
Columbus, Ohio
November 15, 2009
18 players
2R + F
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=4 max=10 avg=8.17)
================================================
3x Anastasz di Zagreb 8 ani cel dom AUS THA Tremere:3
2x Erichtho 8 cel obf AUS DOM THA Tremere:3
1x Father Juan Carlos 6 aus cel pot tha PRE !Brujah:4
1x Fleurdumal 8 cel tha AUS DEM PRE Toreador:3
1x Lin Jun 4 aus cel pre tha Toreador:4
4x Lucas Halton 10 qui AUS CEL DOM THA Tremere:3
Library (90 cards)
==================
Master (10)
4x Blood Doll
2x Celerity
1x Golconda: Inner Peace
1x Minion Tap
2x Thaumaturgy
Action (15)
2x Ambush
1x Bum's Rush
5x Govern the Unaligned
3x Harass
1x Magic of the Smith
1x Nose of the Hound
2x Rutor's Hand
Equipment (6)
5x .44 Magnum
1x Bowl of Convergence
Reaction (14)
4x On the Qui Vive
6x Redirection
4x Second Tradition: Domain
Combat (45)
5x Blur
5x Concealed Weapon
3x Flash
7x Psyche!
11x Pursuit
14x Theft of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:34:47)
No second trad
I've included this deck because it's a TWD that is NOT the archetype I'm covering, but the support cast can operate like this deck in most Second Trad Guns decks. It's far from ideal, especially with Anson decks as you choke on Masters, but I've taken tables with a lineup of Volker and some celerity chumps, even after Volker bit the dust. Parmenides is a risky guy, but Rush with 2 hands and additional strikes is enough to put several problems away, especially if they're foolish enough to think DotB is a safe play because you “probably “ dont have pursuit in hand.
Deck Name: Art of Memory: CEL Guns
Author: Iñaki Jimenez (RedVenom)
Description:
Vitoria, Spain
Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=5 avg=4.5)
==============================================
1x Brachah 5 for CEL PRE Brujah:2
1x Dodd 5 dom pre CEL !Brujah:2
1x Jimmy Dunn 4 for CEL POT Pander:2
1x Parmenides 4 qui CEL Assamite:2
1x Sarah Brando 3 CEL !Brujah:2
1x Scarlet Carson O'Toole 4 pro CEL !Gangrel:3
1x Skryta Zyleta 5 obf pot pro CEL !Gangrel:3
1x Steve Booth 5 pot pre pro CEL Brujah:3
1x Victor Revell, Loyalist 5 aus dem pre CEL !Toreador:2
1x Victor Tolliver 4 pot CEL !Brujah:2
1x Volker, The Puppet Prince 5 pot CEL Brujah:2
1x Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut 5 aus obf qui CEL Assamite:2
Library (80 cards)
==================
Master (11)
6x Blood Doll
2x Fame
2x Frontal Assault
1x Tension in the Ranks
Event (1)
1x Dragonbound
Action (10)
10x Bum's Rush
Equipment (8)
8x .44 Magnum
Combat (50)
6x Blur
8x Concealed Weapon
5x Flash
10x Psyche!
8x Pursuit
2x Side Strike
5x Sideslip
6x Taste of Vitae
Created with Secret Library v0.9.4e. (Jan 15, 2019 23:37:18)
Last edit: 30 Jan 2019 01:37 by ReverendRevolver.
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30 Jan 2019 01:36 #93205
by LivesByProxy
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate 
, or Potence 
for the current action.
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Deck Archetype: Second Trad Guns
A while back I mentioned the card Quick Draw:
Quick Draw
Combat
Only usable before strikes are chosen if you have a gun weapon card in your hand. The gun cannot cost 3 or more pool or inflict (with a regular strike) aggravated damage or 3 or more damage.
Equip this vampire with that gun (and pay cost to equip as normal).
As above, and this round the gun strikes with first strike.
Granted, it doesn't let you drop the .44 and the use the maneuver like Concealed Weapon does, but you could use Desert Eagle (saving a pool) and Blur to do 6 damage before the other minion can strike.
It really grinds my gears that Concealed Weapon isn't Obfuscate, but this might could be the evolution of the archetype.
Quick Draw
Combat
Only usable before strikes are chosen if you have a gun weapon card in your hand. The gun cannot cost 3 or more pool or inflict (with a regular strike) aggravated damage or 3 or more damage.
Equip this vampire with that gun (and pay cost to equip as normal). As above, and this round the gun strikes with first strike.Granted, it doesn't let you drop the .44 and the use the maneuver like Concealed Weapon does, but you could use Desert Eagle (saving a pool) and
Blur to do 6 damage before the other minion can strike.It really grinds my gears that Concealed Weapon isn't Obfuscate, but this might could be the evolution of the archetype.
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.
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30 Jan 2019 01:47 #93206
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Deck Archetype: Second Trad Guns
Having a Disguised speed conceal for isn't nothing by any means, but using it on a Deagle or .38 with DBR for first strike agg seems to use the card better than celerity guns would.
Second trad in particular is hurting for crypt options, since no 7 or 8 caps are as solid as Ira or Anson, and no support vamps exist better than Volker and Brando. (Yet). The simplicity of the combat package is one of the selling points, if a conceal existed that gave a manuever, additional, dodge, or prevent at SUP it would definitely replace the mono-use conceal (which is an easy mid to late game discard not often scooped with Tablets)
Related:
Do you feel the picture under "equipment" explains enough?
Disguised speed conceal for isn't nothing by any means, but using it on a Deagle or .38 with DBR for first strike agg seems to use the card better than celerity guns would.Second trad in particular is hurting for crypt options, since no 7 or 8 caps are as solid as Ira or Anson, and no support vamps exist better than Volker and Brando. (Yet). The simplicity of the combat package is one of the selling points, if a
conceal existed that gave a manuever, additional, dodge, or prevent at SUP it would definitely replace the mono-use conceal (which is an easy mid to late game discard not often scooped with Tablets)Related:
Do you feel the picture under "equipment" explains enough?
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