Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Bleed
13 Jan 2011 20:00 - 13 Jan 2011 20:01 #505
by Kushiel
You don't need to base the whole deck around this combo. Having some surprise offensive combat is very good for tap-and-bleed decks, given that Pentex is your only other way to defeat a No Secrets prey (amongst other troublesome prey matchups). The Reservoirs work just fine on their own if you don't need the Bursts, the Bursts combo rather well with Recure, and none of these options are taking up so much space in your library that you're going to choke on them when you need some other card. Given taht this is the textbook example of how to properly build card combos - use cards which are effective on their own and produce even stronger effects when used synergistically - it's worth at least trying it out to see how it fares in actual play.
That's what I'll be doing when I rip off this idea to try it out for myself, anyway. B)
Replied by Kushiel on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
My first deck, years ago, played Corporal Reservoir + Burst of Sunlight. It wasn't as reliable or effective as it sounds.
You don't need to base the whole deck around this combo. Having some surprise offensive combat is very good for tap-and-bleed decks, given that Pentex is your only other way to defeat a No Secrets prey (amongst other troublesome prey matchups). The Reservoirs work just fine on their own if you don't need the Bursts, the Bursts combo rather well with Recure, and none of these options are taking up so much space in your library that you're going to choke on them when you need some other card. Given taht this is the textbook example of how to properly build card combos - use cards which are effective on their own and produce even stronger effects when used synergistically - it's worth at least trying it out to see how it fares in actual play.
That's what I'll be doing when I rip off this idea to try it out for myself, anyway. B)
Last edit: 13 Jan 2011 20:01 by Kushiel.
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13 Jan 2011 20:11 #506
by Dorrinal
Replied by Dorrinal on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
You make a good point about the synergies. What I'm saying is that I have tried it out, and Corporal Reservoir is not strong enough on its own to be worth the card spaces. Then again, I am probably going to drop those Dominions anyway...

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13 Jan 2011 20:51 #508
by Kushiel
To each their own. I put Life in the City in lots of decks, and Reservoir is simply better than that card.
Replied by Kushiel on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
You make a good point about the synergies. What I'm saying is that I have tried it out, and Corporal Reservoir is not strong enough on its own to be worth the card spaces.
To each their own. I put Life in the City in lots of decks, and Reservoir is simply better than that card.
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13 Jan 2011 21:01 #510
by Dorrinal
Replied by Dorrinal on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
I don't see this as a "to each their own" situation. Either I dilute the deck by adding trifles, or I replace stronger masters with them. Hence my comment about Dominion: I probably could find room for 1-2 Corporal Reservoir. What would you take out for them?

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13 Jan 2011 22:25 - 13 Jan 2011 22:44 #511
by Dorrinal
Replied by Dorrinal on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
This is probably a stronger crypt in groups 2-3:
2x Selena
2x Yasmin the Black
1x Aisling Sturbridge
1x Hannigan
1x Kurt Strauss
1x Thelonius
1x Brooke
1x Ehrich Weiss
1x Ember Wright
1x Saiz
Totally playable with DJ_Assface's library -- I would need at least need Effective Management in my original library to pull this off.
2x Selena
2x Yasmin the Black
1x Aisling Sturbridge
1x Hannigan
1x Kurt Strauss
1x Thelonius
1x Brooke
1x Ehrich Weiss
1x Ember Wright
1x Saiz
Totally playable with DJ_Assface's library -- I would need at least need Effective Management in my original library to pull this off.

Last edit: 13 Jan 2011 22:44 by Dorrinal.
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13 Jan 2011 22:36 - 13 Jan 2011 22:37 #512
by Kushiel
It is, though:
To me, free bloodgain (and potential poolgain, since you do have some blood=pool tech in here) isn't dilution, it's additional resilience. It's not as though Corporal Reservoir is a situational card.
To you, the Reservoirs aren't worth including, because you don't seem to care much for bloodgain. Those cardslots dilute the purity of the deck's functionality.
Vessel isn't worth playing in this deck. Its pool cost and slowness to recoup aren't offset by any need of yours to burn Blood Dolls or move blood during your untap phase.
Dominion, as already discussed, doesn't really do anything for you (particularly if you add The Coven, which you seemed excited about doing).
The Dominate skillcard can be easily replaced by fixing your crypt.
Census Taker isn't worth playing, particularly when your only potential targets for it are six-caps - yes, I see the synergy with Rutor's Hand, but it's not worth the pool cost, MPA, and action loss when it's used.
Hunting Grounds are rarely worth their cost and MPA, and this deck is planning on going forward fairly quickly, so you're unlikely to profit much from it before the game is over.
So:
-1 Census Taker
-1 Dominate
-2 Dominon
-1 University Hunting Ground
-2 Vessel
That should free up some slots for Coven, Reservoirs, an Anarch Troublemaker, and perhaps a Giant's Blood and Blood Dolls.
Replied by Kushiel on topic Re: Black Magic Woman - Tremere Black Hand Tap-Ble
I don't see this as a "to each their own" situation.
It is, though:
To me, free bloodgain (and potential poolgain, since you do have some blood=pool tech in here) isn't dilution, it's additional resilience. It's not as though Corporal Reservoir is a situational card.
To you, the Reservoirs aren't worth including, because you don't seem to care much for bloodgain. Those cardslots dilute the purity of the deck's functionality.
Either I dilute the deck by adding trifles, or I replace stronger masters with them. Hence my comment about Dominion: I probably could find room for 1-2 Corporal Reservoir. What would you take out for them?
Vessel isn't worth playing in this deck. Its pool cost and slowness to recoup aren't offset by any need of yours to burn Blood Dolls or move blood during your untap phase.
Dominion, as already discussed, doesn't really do anything for you (particularly if you add The Coven, which you seemed excited about doing).
The Dominate skillcard can be easily replaced by fixing your crypt.
Census Taker isn't worth playing, particularly when your only potential targets for it are six-caps - yes, I see the synergy with Rutor's Hand, but it's not worth the pool cost, MPA, and action loss when it's used.
Hunting Grounds are rarely worth their cost and MPA, and this deck is planning on going forward fairly quickly, so you're unlikely to profit much from it before the game is over.
So:
-1 Census Taker
-1 Dominate
-2 Dominon
-1 University Hunting Ground
-2 Vessel
That should free up some slots for Coven, Reservoirs, an Anarch Troublemaker, and perhaps a Giant's Blood and Blood Dolls.
Last edit: 13 Jan 2011 22:37 by Kushiel.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dorrinal
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