file Mata Hari + Salubri + Renegade Garou

26 Nov 2017 15:51 - 26 Nov 2017 15:53 #84373 by ReverendRevolver
Boris and Temporis both touched on something I'm curious about: why just Garou? I've ran many fun-level (see; not going to be winning very often) Maya Hari decks, and I can say the fact that she can crank out multiple minions a turn (I've done hatchlings, tuminos, web of knives recruit, etc with weenie fortitude 2 caps before, and many ally decks) by having access to free freak drive and dropping multiple minions. Nephran-Ka, Rock Cat, High-Top, and Tye Cooper come to mind. I've ran Mata Hari with allies that rush, put Mass Reality out, and each ally pulls out a foldable machine gun... Good times.
Anyway, your pacing is better with multiple allies. The first 3 I mentioned are really solid, and are cheaper than garou. I'm especially fond of Nephran-Ka, as he's the most functional combat mummy there is (easily my favorite mummy in vtes). Matas access to utility allies like Ponticulus also helps her stay alive. Remember, just because Carlton vanwick can go in any deck doesn't mean you shouldn't put him in this style.
I'd consider jack so you can actually get vps late game once set up. Your currently a bleed sink with nearly no forward pressure to a preys pool. Dangerous set of things to be.
Last edit: 26 Nov 2017 15:53 by ReverendRevolver.

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28 Nov 2017 14:48 - 28 Nov 2017 14:57 #84388 by Bloodartist
At first glance, I couldn't understand what was going on. After reading the thread with some thought and looking at lackey for card explanations, the ideas behind this deck are fascinating. I am however worried for the deck achieving the basic things, such as ousting specifically. I also agree with above that you should probably reduce reliance on infernal pact and exotic disciplines plus other stuff until the ally package is sorted out.

So the idea is to have ankara citadel and crank out cheap and versatile allies for defense and other things.

- Maybe consider vast wealth so you have higher chance of getting to equip ankara citadel?
- Asanbonsam ghouls seem like a good ally for defense, due to having +1 intercept vs d-actions. Asanbonsams would block bleeds or rushes against you at +2 intercept if you have unmasking out.
- Ohoyo hopoksia is an Ahrimanes ally suited for protecting Mata Hari from combat.
- For ousting, maybe consider eccentric billionaire ? They are non-unique and bleed for 2 while cheapening equipment (slightly irrelevant)
- Draba is probably better card for blocking duties than auspex cards, since Draba simply reduces stealth to 0. This benefits your allies(reduce stealth with Mata and block with an ally) and can also be used across the table to help your cross-table allies to block.

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Last edit: 28 Nov 2017 14:57 by Bloodartist.

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29 May 2018 21:29 #87710 by derjudge
Ally stealing is terrible against garou. You have access to arhimane protectorate to defend against this thing.

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05 Jun 2018 01:44 #87935 by hollowboy
After writing a reply, I realised how old this question is :(

Mata Hari + Salubri does not make sense, because in that case any cheap Gangrel can do the same job as Mata for less pool.


I agree with this.

You have 3 core ideas: bloat, Garou, and Garou resurrection. Pick the simplest deck core that gets these things happening.

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If you want just simple changes:

Replace the Slaughterhouses with Fame and Heidelburg Castle.

Add some generic combat cards that cycle easily (Weighted Walking Stick, Target Vitals etc): useful for Garou, and also playable when Mata Hari gets blocked.

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Talbot (the 7 cap group 5 Gangrel) can do almost everything your deck does, without needing to bolt any extra disciplines on - I'm actually tempted to try this, which is why there's so much detail :)

Talbot can recruit Garou cos she's a Gangrel. Talbot can play Compel the Spirit to resurrect the Garou if they die. NEC and ANI give Talbot multiple ways to kill any Garou who get stolen.

A crypt with ANI allows Underbridge Stray, which has good Garou synergy, and good NEC synergy (the strays come back as Hordes).

If you run her, you can run fewer Garou, and replace them with cheaper allies:
(1) run multiples of the good clanless allies (Ossian, Carlton, Mylan)
(2) splash in a few Shambling Hordes

If you keep the Anarch angle, you could use the Liquidation + Gear Up combo to replace Sibyl`s Tongue. It'd also give more fodder for Shambling Hordes.

Replace Villein and Renewed Vigor with Thing & Ecoterrorists (and cheaper allies, so you need less bloat).

Abombwe (master: trifle) could be cute in this deck, both for boosting capacity, and for providing extra rushes with Talbot's special.
-It can make Talbot big enough to target with Mylan Horseed
-It allows a vampire to Groom the Protege on themselves
-It has synergy with a few other options (Shiloh Marie's special text, Free States Rant).

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If you did decide to keep Mata Hari, I'd consider running her as the only vampire.

You could ditch the Salubri angle, and instead focus on keeping the Garou alive. Use lots of ally support: several copies of Jake Washington, and 6-8 Imbued.

Jake and the Imbued can get you miving faster: they can recruit the good clanless allies (Ossian, Carlton, Mylan), and make decent-to-great blockers. If you can get a Champion in play, you should be able to shut down any anti-Garou action.

If you add some generic combat support (Sticks, Leather Jacket, Glancing Blow, Target Vitals), the Garou will hit slightly harder, and all your allies will be less likely to die in combat.

I'd remove some of the Garou, and add 1 of every cheap-but-good ally that Mata Hari can recruit (e.g. Amam the Devourer, Muddled Vampire Hunter). I think it is better to have lots of weak rushes, which will run your target out of defense, rather than a couple of strong rushes, which can get countered easily via Majesty or chump blockers.

Use her OBF to Cloak the allies.

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05 Jun 2018 07:46 #87938 by elotar
Until DI will get banned you have ultimate protection against ally steal.
Put like 4 in a deck and you'll be fine. ;)

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05 Jun 2018 08:01 #87940 by Lönkka

Until DI will get banned you have ultimate protection against ally steal.
Put like 4 in a deck and you'll be fine. ;)


Doesn't hamper merged Sebastian Goulet though... :)

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