Tempting Horseshoes

the1andonlime wrote:

That's uncalled for, given that Kevin is just trying to help.

Was he trying to help?
The OP had already implicitly made the statement that he wasn't going to answer those questions, so asking them in that manner could be construed as rudeness (although I'm sure that wasn't the intention).
Ashur's response was to politely but explicitly state that he didn't want to answer those particular questions, and thanked Kevin for his time anyway. In no way is that comment "uncalled for".
There is no obligation on anyone to follow a particular format for their posts on this forum, just as there's no obligation on anyone to reply to those posts.

On the deck itself.
I would drop the combat angle completely and add a few blood burning allies. Gregory Winter, Young Bloods, and Marijava Thuggee are all options if you think you can afford the pool, Impundulu is a must include.
You should also add a couple of Secure Havens, if only to contest other peoples, and at least 1 more Fame.
For bloat you could try Villein / Temptation / Heidelberg, or Form of Corruption / Khobar Towers, or both of the above.

On your crypt.
I think Shemti is too large for this deck. You would never be happy to see him instead of Bupe Kuila, and would probably not be able to afford both of them, so I'd just replace him with a third Bupe.
I think 1x Nicomedes should be 1x Nichodemus (suspect this is just a typo in the deck).

You have 4 Horseshoes and 7 Temptations in 90 cards.

If you want the deck to reflect it's name, you need to up that count.
Make it 12 Horshoes and 8-9 Temptations at least. Include Revelations of Ecstasy to burn additional blood from vampires while reducing bleeds, add a couple Touch of Pain and Consignment to Duat. Reducde the combat angle. Use your tempted vampires to bleed relentlessly and send stealth bleeders that offend you to torpor with combinations oh Horseshoes, Touch of Pain, Crocodile Temple, etc.

+2 fun.

Mael wrote:

the1andonlime wrote:

Ashur's response was to politely but explicitly state that he didn't want to answer those particular questions, and thanked Kevin for his time anyway. In no way is that comment "uncalled for".

"Draw your own conclusions, or don´t do it."

Sounds a little callous and rude, don't you think? I might be missing something here, but on a tone neutral medium, it does come across as uncalled for.

I don't think we need to be that considerate about how we state things on a VTES forum, or any forum. Just say what you have to say.

Anyway, I think the problem is simple. Horseshoes sucks. I have tried many decks with the card, and it simply doesn't deal enough damage for an stealthless action. Perhaps you could instead try a similar !Gangrel deck with Nostoket and the Serpentis !Gangrel. That would instantly reduce your card count. Loki's Gift could possibly fit in somewhere there. You could also have a very low combat card count, some aggro pokes and some earth melds or such. Then you can focus on ousting. Temptation and Nostoket could function as light defense while you villein/lilith's bless your pool up. Well that's something you could do here as well, free minions couldn't hurt.

Also Horseshoes kinda does what combat does, deal damage to minions, so it overlaps with your combat module. Though combat is better at it. The thing with these Horseshoes decks is that when people actually have blood, Horseshoes isn't worth the action, you could be torporing guys left and right with Immortal Grapple combat but instead now Lutz has 9 instead of 11 blood, that just doesn't help at all.

Demnogonis wrote:

I don't think we need to be that considerate about how we state things on a VTES forum, or any forum. Just say what you have to say.

Anyway, I think the problem is simple. Horseshoes sucks. I have tried many decks with the card, and it simply doesn't deal enough damage for an stealthless action. Perhaps you could instead try a similar !Gangrel deck with Nostoket and the Serpentis !Gangrel. That would instantly reduce your card count. Loki's Gift could possibly fit in somewhere there. You could also have a very low combat card count, some aggro pokes and some earth melds or such. Then you can focus on ousting. Temptation and Nostoket could function as light defense while you villein/lilith's bless your pool up. Well that's something you could do here as well, free minions couldn't hurt.

Also Horseshoes kinda does what combat does, deal damage to minions, so it overlaps with your combat module. Though combat is better at it. The thing with these Horseshoes decks is that when people actually have blood, Horseshoes isn't worth the action, you could be torporing guys left and right with Immortal Grapple combat but instead now Lutz has 9 instead of 11 blood, that just doesn't help at all.

A Temptation/Horseshoes deck does work. The horeshoes give you control about which minions will lose blood and be in range for a Temptation/Form of Corruption. Setites have stealth, so they can play Cloak and Veil, whiile the small guys go reducing blood on vamps. Add touch of pain, and you have a reasonable defence against bleed.
Temptation backwards, bring him down to 1 blood and have the vampire each turn. Make sure you Heidelberg off the blood, so he can't bleed you.